there is a time when some things come down to faith, that is why it is called such. I think that logical debate alway results in progress, that is why in Islamic terms I am called a liberal-moderate or “progressive” though that last term has unfortunately in the conservative Muslim world negative meanings and is a “used and abused word”.

interesting though, I do not agree that logical solid debate would result in one universal religion, because I honestly think that human nature has to many faces and ideas and thus points of view and matters of “faith” will always reflect that. i am not being pesimistic, I just think that is human nature.

I bank with others.

Could it be that you’re referring to Arab occupied Judea and Samaria?

To:

All we need to know is If this was the case, they need to believe & believe comes from a process of thoughts that are answered by eliminating doubts (either by faith or by logical process)

Thank you, I believe our next discussions would be addressed properly.

Im fully aware of that part of the history & many muslims are in the same line of understanding, However, I must beg to only question certain events during that crucial period, thats all, Perhaps not this thread, but later.

In my understanding, sincerely, originality is based from the source & only the source, & to claim something means to be steadfast against questions. Believe me, millions are looking for answers, including myself. All we need to know is If this was the case, they need to believe & believe comes from a process of thoughts that are answered by doubts.

And what more simpler way to get this answer rather than reading & asking questions. My delicate logic is to question & get the truth. I just want to be clear.

Wouldn’t you agree that If these crucial questions were answered or addressed with actions positively, the world would probably united with a single race & religion?

Anyway, We will take this in a different discussion.

My own studies, research and knowledge comes down to this about the Qur’an. It was given orally in front of a number of professonal reciters. There was almost no scribes in that part of the world and the practice was by far a proper and effective methods, these reciters are renowned and in groups are basically perfect.

After the death of Mohammed, the reciters were tasked with having this put down into writing, again as a group to ensure accuracy and with the constant presence of many people to ensure no forced change.

On the 19th year after the death of Mohammed the then Caliphe, Othman took control of the first full copy of the Qur’an. He ensured that multiple copies were made to guarentee no changes. I have seen one of these “originals” in the Topkapi Palace museum in Istanbul along with many other relics and artifacts.

It is on this basis alone that I accept the originality and untainted nature of the Qur’an.

Again, if I have unjustly put you into the group of BS hate-mongers, please excuse me and blame it on confussion.

As for the comment about being polite in someone’s house, they say here in the South of Morocco that “hospitality does not mean spit on the guest” – talk to the blog-owner.

You keep repeating the same smears and drivel and you refuse to answer questions, what does that tell us about you?

Islam believes in the rule of Islam, Caliphate to the Sunnis and Imamate to the Shi’as. Hence, to Muslims, all other forms of government represent the handiwork of the Satan and the infidels. Therefore, one and all non-Islamic systems of government must be purified by the Islamic fire.

You just confirmed that.

Islam is and has always been political, in the form of Imamate, Caliphate or by proxy where Islam, through religious divines, controlled the state. Saudi Arabia, for instance, does not even have a constitution. The Quran is the constitution. The country has a king. Yet, the king is the supreme enforcer of the laws dictated by Islam.

Islam is so radical that even the term “radical” does not adequately depict its true character. The founder of Islam, Muhammad, behaved in extreme ways whenever he could. Your king of Morocco is said to have a direct lineage to the meshugga prophet and is thus seen as a legitimate ruler. Cool. No issue here.

But what goes on in his jails?