Even the NYT takes notice: By NIKI KITSANTONIS
LESBOS, GREECE — “Stop the boat! Stop the boat now!” the captain of the Greek Coast Guard patrol vessel yelled over the bullhorn, turning a spotlight on the flimsy dinghy as it chugged toward this island in the Aegean Sea.
As the dinghy sputtered to a halt, a crowd of frightened faces squinted up into the light. Squeezed onto the 6-meter, or 20-foot, vessel were 30 Afghan migrants — men, women, children including babies — and their smugglers: two Turkish boys.
The interception occurred one Saturday night earlier this month. But the migrants, the smugglers and the coast guard officers are protagonists in a daily drama played out in this seven-kilometer-wide strait separating the island of Lesbos from the Turkish coast, one of the narrowest sea crossings between the two countries and a favored route for smuggling.
Hampering European Union efforts to curb a relentless influx of desperate people seeking to enter the bloc through this slender channel are age-old tensions between the E.U. member Greece and the E.U.-hopeful Turkey and the ever inventive tactics of opportunists profiting from the situation.
“It’s kids like these that smugglers are sending over to do their dirty work,” the coast guard captain said as his colleagues handcuffed the two boys to the deck of the patrol boat. The youths said they were Turks, age 16 and 17, and nodded sheepishly when asked if they were doing it for the money.
“We’ve seen one kid three times,” the captain said, noting that minors, who cannot be prosecuted under Greek law, were sent back to Turkey, but often tried to return to Greece a few weeks later. The captain asked not to be identified by name for security reasons.
The dinghy piloted by the teenagers was one of hundreds of boats that were stopped in waters off Lesbos in patrols organized by the island’s coast guard in association with the E.U.’s border monitoring agency, Frontex. A total of 7,745 migrants have been detained on the island this year. This is partly because the patrols, ostensibly aimed at pushing back undocumented immigrants, often turn into rescue exercises.
“Smugglers often burst the dinghies as they know we will have to save the migrants while they escape,” the captain said. He said the Turkish teens might have been planning to do the same: They were wearing wet suits under their clothes which, when searched, revealed mobile phones but no weapons or identification documents.
Some migrants are not lucky enough to be spotted. On Oct. 27, 10 Afghans, including eight children, drowned when their boat hit a rocky outcrop off the northeastern coast of Lesbos.
Escape tactics by smugglers and the failure, reported by Frontex, of Turkish officials to stop suspicious vessels as they leave, ensure that a steady stream of migrants reaches Lesbos and other islands in the Aegean.
Until last month, those arriving on Lesbos were put in a temporary reception center. But the facility, near the village of Pagani, was closed after overcrowding reached such levels that migrants started to riot, sparking protests by human rights groups. Of the hundreds of migrants released, some were given ferry tickets to the major port of Piraeus, near Athens, and deportation slips ordering them to leave Greece within 30 days. Others were transferred to a facility, now filled beyond its capacity, on the nearby island of Chios.
Detention centers across Greece had been accommodating some of the overflow, but unions representing the Greek police say that these holding cells also are now packed.
There is no sign of the influx ebbing. According to Frontex, 14,000 migrants were intercepted at sea between Greece and Turkey in the first six months of this year, up 47 percent from the 9,500 stopped in the first half of 2008. In contrast, arrivals by undocumented migrants to Italy and Spain, also considered external E.U. border states, dropped by 70 percent. A reception center on the Italian island of Lampedusa was crammed this time last year and is now empty.
“A trend of reduced migration flows in the Mediterranean region is not reflected in Greece, which remains the main entry point to the E.U. for illegal immigrants,” said Gil Arias Fernández, the deputy executive director of Frontex. The problem will persist, he said, “as long as Turkish authorities do not stop migrants near their border.”
Afghans dominate the influx of migrants, joined by a growing number of people from countries in North and West Africa, shunning routes via Italy and Spain because of repatriation pacts in force between these nations and their countries of origin. A similar agreement exists between Greece and Turkey, but the authorities in Greece complain that it is not being enforced by Ankara, despite pressure from the European Union. This hampers the patrols.
And Frontex itself been criticized by refugee advocates for turning back migrant boats because the patrols do not first verify whether there genuine asylum-seekers are aboard.
“Frontex can only do so much operationally — only a political decision can have a real impact,” said Lieutenant Antonios Sofiadelis, the coast guard official in Lesbos who works with Frontex to organize local patrols. He said there were “countless instances of Turkish coast guard vessels ignoring smuggling boats.”
Earlier this month, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey sent a letter to his Greek counterpart, George Papandreou, proposing a debate on issues of bilateral concern, including the Cyprus problem, tensions in the Aegean and illegal immigration.
“We are ready to solve the Aegean issue,” the letter said, according to Turkish press reports. “Turkey has been assuming a zero-problem policy with its neighbors. Within this framework, I propose that we work together to establish a structure that will bring our related ministers together for the solution of the Aegean issue.”
Greece says that only the E.U. can oblige Turkey to help with anti-immigration patrols at the countries’ sea border.
“The problem with Turkey must be made an international issue,” Spyros Vougias, the deputy minister for public order, said in an e-mailed statement. Last month, Mr. Vougias ordered the closure of the Pagani center — a converted warehouse that had been housing 1,300 migrants — saying it was “worse than Dante’s inferno.”
Pledging the construction of a “new, model facility,” Mr. Vougias said he was “determined not to allow the problem to be transferred elsewhere.” But he said this would require the revision of the Dublin II Regulation, an E.U. directive dictating that migrants apply for asylum in the first E.U. country they enter, increasingly Greece.
To ease pressure on Greece, the vice president of the European Commission, Jacques Barrot, last month pledged E.U. financing for the creation of an “efficient asylum system” that would distinguish refugees deserving of protection from economic migrants and replace a bureaucracy-ridden plan that has been criticized by for having an extremely low rate of approving asylum claims.
As authorities in Athens and Brussels discuss funding and logistics, temporary measures are failing to curb the crisis. Boatloads of migrants are being forwarded from Lesbos to Chios and the authorities are nervous.
“We want to help but we don’t want another Pagani here,” said the prefect of Chios, Polydoros Lambrinoudis.
Dozens can be seen at Pagani and at the island’s main port of Mytilini most days, waiting for the ferry to Chios.
Natasha Strachini, a lawyer on Chios who heads an association that helps migrants apply for asylum, noted that the local center was already accommodating double its maximum capacity of 150. She said that Chios had been thrown the political hot potato that Lesbos had inherited in 2007 when authorities closed down another overcrowded center on Samos, another island to the south.
“We can’t keep moving the problem from island to island,” she said. “These are makeshift solutions to an enduring problem.”
{ 49 comments… read them below or add one }
The entire Western world is systematically being invaded by Muslims with their jihad in tow.
For crying out loud. It’s an endless stream of humanity coming to our shores. It cannot be stopped.
It these people were apostates and seeking asylum then I would consider it but they are not. They are Muslims and must be turned back when found. But you can’t catch them all. How many hundreds must be getting into Greece?
These muslims are invaders. Nothing more – nothing less.
So our young men go to afghanistan and get killed and maimed to protect the able bodied afghanies who are able to flee their own country and claim asylum and benefits in the uk (and other soft euro nations)… any able bodied man from afghanistan who claims asylum should be repatriated and enlisted in the afghan army, unless they are already from any other faith than islam and fleeing islamic persecution!
Well kinda poetic justice, wogs invaded Australia. Poms invaded and colonised the world. Suck it up now….
Afghan refugees huh? I wonder what they might be running away from?
Could it be the death and destruction that has been wreaked on Afghanistan by US Imperial forces since 2001? A war that was planned for years before 9/11 and has nothing to do with Bin Laden but everything to do with geo-ploitical control of the region?
Could it be the US drone attacks on Afghan villages that regularly kill innocent men, women and children?
Every country that is a member of the United Nations has a duty to accept war refugees, whatever their color or creed. Yes, even Muslims!
“Could it be the death and destruction that has been wreaked on Afghanistan by US Imperial forces since 2001?”
It might be, but if so why would they seek safe haven in the USA, Australia and other Coalition allies?
Every country that values freedom and independence will quit the UN
and its “duties”.
If you or I were fleeing war, we would go anywhere I imagine, even America!
And while I accept that refugees place strain on a country, let’s not exaggerate the number of refugees going to Europe – the hate-mongers like Sheikyermami want us to believe there is a human tide of people flooding into Europe, taking our jobs, corrupting our values, and raping our women. This is similar language used in Germany in the 1930s, and we all know where that led to.
At the end of day we need to remember the Golden Rule:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
* At the end of day we need to remember the Golden Rule:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
“Allah” and its false prophet do not believe in the “Golden Rule”;
allah believes in making war upon unbelievers until its religion reigns supreme, as outlined in Sura 8:39 of the blasphemous koran.
Take it up with allah if you wish, & if you think it will have any effect on it.
To the deceitful Arab who posts with names like “Ishmael, Ezekiel, Mark, Luke” etc, from Jordan:
Interesting. Why would America have you with your hatred? What have you got to offer America?
We don’t need a “hatemonger like sheik yer’mami” to know that Mohammedans are flooding Europe with the idea that they can conquer, this is well recorded in the annals of this blog. These statements by leading Mohammedans are clear and not in doubt. The soldiers of allah have tried for 1400 years to invade and to conquer, only 500 years ago they took Constantinople and 300 years ago they besieged Vienna. Only 30 years ago the Mohammedan Turks invaded Cyprus and now occupy the northern part. Not driving them out is shameful, appalling cowardice and a lack of resolve on the part of todays limp Euro-dhimmies who somehow seek ‘peace’ with the Mohammedan wolves at any cost.
You (of many fake names) know very little about Israel and what you know is Arab propaganda and the nonsense from your hate-preachers in the mosques. Here is Israel for you, what really happened.
However, I have no hope that you will educate yourself or that you can be reasoned with, Arab-Muslims are just not made that way.
I find it typically deceitful that you invoke the ‘Golden Rule’- which is non existent in Islam. There is no benevolence toward good nonbelievers in Islam. Moreover, and, contrary to what Obama said in Cairo, there is no golden rule in Islam that restricts what Muslims may do to non-Muslims. But the golden rule is not a one way street.
As for “Afghan refugees huh? I wonder what they might be running away from?”- did it occur to you that they might be running from Islam? Did it ever occur to you that there are more and more failed states in the world that have failed because of Islam? The UN is a dysfunctional, corrupt talking shop for 3rd world despots, tinpot dictators and dominated by 57 Islamic nations who have made a mockery of it. We have no obligation whatsoever to finance it or obey the UN’s resolutions. The UN should be dismantled, and it will be. We in the West have had a gut full to finance this worthless den of thieves.
As the invasion of Europe continues, some Arab leaders speak openly about their goals:
Link
So what are Mohammedans saying about us? Lets take a look:
“We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you.”
—Hussein Massawi, the former Hezbollah leader behind the slaughter of U.S. and French forces 20 years ago.
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”
— Former Algerian President Houari Boumedienne’s prophetic warning to Europe in a speech at the U.N. In 1974. Thirty three years later, his prediction is in the process of unfolding.
Islamic clerics regularly preach about how the Muslims will “conquer Rome” and how the West is decadent and weak, ready for the taking. Here, in the annals of this blog you find a multitude of videos and recorded transcripts of Arab-Muslim intentions, all rooted in Islam and none of it of any benefit to the world, to us infidels and based entirely on the obsession to make Islam dominant, to kill or forcibly convert unbelievers and to wipe out the Jews.
Therefore, the world would be better off without Islam.
What we want, as Arabs, is to *be*. However, we can only be, if *the other* is not’. [Ben Bella, ‘Tous Contre Israel’, PI i.e. International Political Review/ Revue Politique Internationale, 16 (Paris, 1982), p. 108]
What we want, as Arabs, is to *be*. However, we can only be, if *the other* is not’. [Ben Bella, ‘Tous Contre Israel’, PI i.e. International Political Review/ Revue Politique Internationale, 16 (Paris, 1982), p. 108]
And maybe in the end for us non- mslims to be , it’ll be necessary for ‘the other’ not to be
I think that is the only way to *be*.
Mullah (nice name! I like it, and I’ve appropriated it for my own uses):
Quoting phrases out of context from any Holy Book doesn’t really get us anywhere, does it? It’s not really very sophisticated. But then you probably think Monster Trucks and WWF are the height of sophistication.
Anyway, let’s put things in context: Sura 8 refers to the Battle of Badr – the first major military engagement between the Muslims and the non-Muslim army of Mecca.
Sura 8:39 is actually translated thus:
And fight them until there is no fitnah [division] and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease – then indeed, Allah is seeing of what they do
Now, that doesn’t say that Muslims should spread Islam around the world does it? No, what is being referred to here by ‘the religion’, is the religion of the tribes of Mecca, the people Mohammad and his small army were fighting against, and who wanted to kill Mohammad for turning against them.
Here’s another quote from the Holy Koran that you overlooked, from Sura 2:191:
Fight those in the way of God who fight you, but do not be aggressive: God does not like aggressors
What does it say? That’s right: “God does not like aggressors”. Which is why God does not like America of course.
But let me join you in your trailer amongst the empty beer cans and crusty Kleenex, and offer you the following out-of-context quotes
from the Holy Bible:
They entered into the covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and soul;and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 (New American Standard Bible)
Scary!
Some worthless men have gone out from among you and have seduced the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom you have not known), then you shall investigate and search out and inquire thoroughly. If it is true and the matter established that this abomination has been done among you, you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it and all that is in it and its cattle with the edge of the sword. Then you shall gather all its booty into the middle of its open square and burn the city and all its booty with fire as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God; and it shall be a ruin forever. It shall never be rebuilt.
The whole town?! Oh boy…
If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ …, you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Deuteronomy 13:6-12
Just trying to convert someone away from Judaism results in being stoned to death. Sounds a bit harsh, doesn’t it?
My conclusion from these out-of-context quotes? Judaism and Christianity are religions of violence! Spread it on Fox News!
Notice “RabbiD”‘s obfustication on Judaism paralleled in the Old Testament with Christianity, with0ut using a single verse from the New Testament…but the biggest omission of all is what are Jews & Christians doing now to supposedly doing to reinforce these supposed “doctrines of violence, hate & murder”? And when ever does “Fox news” declare this in any fashion? Of course this Muslim nOOb didn’t produce a single instance where real Jews & Christians are using those circumstantial verses as principle doctrine to justify in killing people anywhere.
Yet you could create 10,000 book library quoting Muslims using their own Koran to justify barbaric blood thirsty Jihad against non submissive unbelievers…using their own interpretation of course. Like Jesus said judge a tree by the fruit it produces, yet these Islamic deceivers want us to ignore all fruit of Islamic terrorism based upon some pretty picture they draw of Islam…and shove it in our face.
And why do Muslims always try to use Jewish & Christian names in order to subterfuge? Maybe it is a case of severe envy of religions that actually have some real substantial spirituality to them?
“RabbiD” is of course the same Mohammedan detractor from Jordan who posts here under multiple monikers, like “Mark, Ezekiel, Luke, Ishmael” etc. I am not impressed. Muhammad said “War is Deception” and too many Muhammad worshippers believe they are so superior to infidels that they can pull primitive, crude pranks.
Jihad is permanent and relentless until the world is Islamic. That is Muhammad’s central command and the basis of the Mohammedan ideology. We cannot be bothered with those who deny this, this blog has close to 8000 blog posts that document the global jihad, a fact which is self evident.
The Jordanian Muhammad worshipper with multiple aliases sez:
“Allah”, the ancient moon god of the pagan desert Arabs, is not God. Far from it. America has been attacked and America returns the fire to those who attacked. You might not like it, little Mo-worshipper, but America also finances your plucky little king. America also pays the jiziya to Egypt and to Pakistan, awful Mohammedan hell-holes all of them, to prevent them from becoming like Somalia, this wonderland of Islam.
Don’t bother sliming the Bible or Jewish scriptures here, no Jew and no Christian goes out and kills Mohammedans because of our scriptures.
You know next to nothing about it, all you know is the Koran and the hadith, your hate preachers and your cult of hate. We are not like you and your false claims don’t make it so.
Besides: This website is not called “Christianity Watch” or “Jew Watch”- its called Winds of Jihad, and we discuss the global jihad here. If you haven’t read the disclaimer yet I suggest you do it now. If you have nothing of value to offer, you will be gone quickly like other blog trolls before you.
The superior desert dweller also sez:
No. You will not join and you will not share.
You are welcome to use pebbles, (uneven numbers) not bones or dung, because those are the food of the jinn (I don’t want to take you out of your comfort zone!)
Gee, Israel and Jews are such horrible people! If it wasn’t for you we would never know!
The correct term for that, however, is projection. You are blaming others for what you are doing. How very Mohammedan of you!
“Anyway, let’s put things in context: Sura 8 refers to the Battle of Badr – the first major military engagement between the Muslims and the non-Muslim army of Mecca.
Sura 8:39 is actually translated thus:
And fight them until there is no fitnah [division] and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease – then indeed, Allah is seeing of what they do
Now, that doesn’t say that Muslims should spread Islam around the world does it? No, ”
……Well YES it does!!!! In all the rantings and ravings of Allahs 2009 soldiers, before and after any despicable act, they profess to believe that it means world domination.
How can so many thousands of SOA believe the same thing unless their immans have told them so.
Have you heard of the term Global Islam, recently, amongst your brothers?
Come on now!!! Stop being so disengenious
revparadigm:
And why do Muslims always try to use Jewish & Christian names in order to subterfuge? Maybe it is a case of severe envy of religions that actually have some real substantial spirituality to them?
Christianity is based on the Old and the New Testament. Here’s another quote from the Holy Bible:
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:10
And I’m guessing that Sheikhyermami isn’t a Muslim Sheikh, nor is Mullah Lodabullah a Mullah…??
The Beast speaks again! Oh boy, Sheikhyermami is not amused! And that pleases us greatly!
Muslims do not want to convert the whole world to Islam. Honestly they don’t! But you Neo-Con racists need to think this because it gives you something to hate. If this was the 1950s this site would be called Winds of Communism. It’s the same irrational, racist bile, and it doesn’t help anyone or offer anything positive to the world, except more hate.
When did modern jihadi ideology really start? In the 1970s in Iran, as a result of the tyrannies of the Shah, who was installed by the CIA after they toppled the democratically elected Prime Minister Mossadegh. The Shah’s regime was so brutal and corrupt, it forced the Mullahs to overthrow it in 1979.
Meanwhile, the USA’s propping up of tyrannical Arab regimes resulted in the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood and other groups as the only viable forms of political organization in those countries.
Maybe if America hadn’t f*cked around with the Middle East, it might have developed it’s own form of secular democracy, but America does not want democracy in the Middle East (or anywhere else – look at Central and South America). All it wants is control.
In Afghanistan, the US supported the Mojaheddin in the 1980s against the Soviets. They trained and armed them as their proxy army. When the Soviets pulled out, and America got bored, these Mujaheddin groups morphed into resistance groups against America’s policies in the Middle East. Chickens always come home to roost, my American friends.
The US supported Saddam throughout the 80s, but when he fell out of favor they invaded in 1991. Then they invaded again in 2003. Why? Saddam wasn’t threatening anyone. He wasn’t invading anyone. He didn’t even have any WMD (and any WMD he did have was sold to him by the West).
And since 1948, the US has supported Israel as it’s terrorist client state in the Middle East. This is the major cause of the rise of resistance groups that call themselves Jihadis.
In general, people don’t just wake up one morning and say ‘Hey, you know today I think I’m going to take up arms against the USA’. They do it as a result of serious grievances.
All Muslims want is for justice for the Palestinians, and for Americans to stop invading and bombing them.
Instead of wasting your time spreading hate, you should be campaigning in the US to change American Foreign Policy.
Jordanian Mo-bot, you are on notice:
I asked you before: which race is Islam? If you can’t answer it, stop projecting it on us. You racist!
Wrong question. When did the jihad ever stop? should be the correct question.
Your warped and delirious world view resembles a mental cess-pool. Perhaps Hasan Malik can straighten you out, I can’t.
Israel is the only thing that is good in the ME. You hate the good for being good. You smear the Jews because the Arab world is one big latrine. Israel is not a “terrorist client state”, but Islam is a state of permanent warfare and terrorism against unbelievers, which includes genocide on Jews.
More on Israel here>>>
That is what’s bugging you and the bearded zebiba-boyz around you. Why don’t you tell the truth?
Translation:
Islam speak for “itbach al Yahood”- kill the Jews/ destroy Israel. “Justice” for the Mohammed worshippers means sharia and Islamic dominance, nothing else.
And if Mohammedan jihadists don’t want to be bombed, stop terrorizing us. STOP BOMBING US!
I am campaigning. I am campaigning to stop Political Correctness, the pussyfooting around our implacable enemies, the Mohammedans, and I am campaining to call the jihad by name. I am campaigning to bomb the jihadists in their mosques in Mecca and Medina , to vaporize the madrassas and to hang all your hate preachers.
Haven’t you noticed yet or do you have a reading disability?
Allah said he created Africans blacks to be slaves for the Arabs: Tabari 11:11-26
More on American blacks who become muslims:
In the US, blacks join because Islam is the ‘grievance’ religion. Islam in America blames the white race for the black man’s failure. A lot of blacks like that. Black men like the right to demand respect. You can wear stupid outfits and the white man dare not say anything. They like that. Black women like that too. They think wrapping themselves in hijab drag makes them superior to the whites. Absurd but that’s what they think. Black criminals like Islam because it condones stealing, lieiing, deceit and murder of the infidels, i.e. white people. They also like that the infidel politiciians respect and suck up to them.
Most conversions come from prison. Simple to do, your already a criminal and they come in and say with islam you can:
1. beat your wife or even kill her, it’s legal
2. you can have four wives, all breeding more welfare checks
3. you can kill a white man, claim he is a jew if you must, it’s not only allowed it is encouraged.
4. you like sex with kids, go for it the younger the better.
Surprised they are taking so long to convert all of them.
But yes it is funny when you point out that in arabic black and slave are the same word.
or if you ask, you know the middle east took millions of more slaves, for a lot longer than the west, so where are they? where is “harlem” saudi arabia? where are all of the millions of blacks that were taken? oh that’s right. they castrated the men to use as slaves for work and their armies, so no “baby daddies” and the women either had forced abortions or were killed when they became pregnant in which ever harem they belonged. Yes all the black women were taken for sex slaves and none were allowed to have children. Wow, American slave owners were so mean compared to that, right?
So it just shows their ignorance for joining a religion(barf) that treats them that way yet they still get mad at whitey. morons.
“Esther November 21, 2009 at 10:16 pm
The Beast speaks again! Oh boy, Sheikhyermami is not amused! And that pleases us greatly!
Muslims do not want to convert the whole world to Islam. Honestly they don’t! But you Neo-Con racists need to think this because it gives you something to hate. If this was the 1950s this site would be called Winds of Communism. It’s the same irrational, racist bile, and it doesn’t help anyone or offer anything positive to the world, except more hate.
When did modern jihadi ideology really start?”
Esther, [not your real name, a 'kufir' name no less] you would not be able to write like this in your country.
Off with your head, more like it.
On this forum you were published. On yours you would NOT be.
…..”Muslims do not want to convert the whole world to Islam. Honestly they don’t!”…..
TAQIYYA!!!!
In every story published in the West, in every video published by your mob says so. Your Koran says so. Your immans preach this today.
“If this was the 1950s this site would be called Winds of Communism. It’s the same irrational, racist bile, and it doesn’t help anyone or offer anything positive to the world, except more hate.”
Warnings of HATE. Not issuing hate. We are non-racist because Islam is multicultural.
Fears of Communism was rational.
Communism proved, after the fifties, to fullfil the fears of the free world.
Communism has died out.
Islam will die out.
We will stop it in its tracks. It is not a religion. It is a violent politico-militia movement.
Do you know what a mental flatliner is, Jordanian slave of Allah?
Take a look in the mirror!
“Christianity is based on the Old and the New Testament.”
Guess my point flew right over the rag on that head.
It’s so simple. If Jews & Christians used those verses as a matter of principle in doctrine, surely there would be rallies of some kind to stone women, kill in the name of the faith[s]…[which happens on a regular basis in Islam...duh]
m-e-a-n-i-n-g
It would be happening on a regular basis and you could identify large sects of people acting upon those doctrines. But all we have here is some typical Muslim deceivers attempting to project doctrine…creating a Judeo/Christian strawman to attack.
Slaves of Allah, take notice of that beast system you are serving. The only beliefs declaring taking life in the name of them…is your own Islamic Jihad.
“Quoting phrases out of context from any Holy Book doesn’t really get us anywhere, does it?”
I was quoting from the koran, not from a holy book.
Here is a quote from a Holy Book:
“The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.” ( Isaiah 17:1)
Out of context, it means that Damascus will be destroyed. In context,
it means the same thing.
Closer to home – Christmas Island diversity celebrations, featuring Afghan and Sri Lankan detainees, sponsored by Australian taxpayers:
abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/22/2749974
Dozens injured in asylum centre brawl
Dozens of men at the Christmas Island detention centre have been injured during a riot between Afghan and Sri Lankan detainees.
The brawl broke out between about 150 men at the centre on Saturday night.
Staff at the centre brought the riot under control within 30 minutes.
Thirty-seven detainees received medical treatment on the island, while a further 10 were treated in hospital.
Three men are being transferred to Perth for medical treatment, suffering a broken nose, leg and jaw.
Three staff members at the centre were also injured trying to break up the riot.
It is understood broken pool cues, tree branches and broom handles were used as weapons.
Department of Immigration spokeswoman Sandi Logan says a joint investigation with the Australian Federal Police is underway.
“The department and the detention services provider will rely on a number of reports, including closed-circuit television vision that is available,” she said.
revparadigm:
My point is that the basis of Christianity and Judaism is violence and hate. The whole colonization of Israel is based on scripture, and since Israel was created through violence, it follows that the Bible is used to justify violence.
Furthermore, the entire foreign policy of the US, Britain and Israel is based on a supremacist policy against the weak, backed by a Judeo-Christian world view of ‘Crusade’.
Sheikyermami:
The Beast once again takes a break from daytime TV, eating donuts and reading Guns & Ammo magazine!
“I asked you before: which race is Islam?”
Come on Nancy (you don’t mind if I call you Nancy do you? But since Sheikhyermami is obvisously not your real name, Nancy seems more suitable somehow), we know that you’re obsessed with Arab Muslims. This is what you’re all about. It’s OK, we all have fetish fantasies!
Your attitude towards blacks reveals even more of your inherent racism. If you didn’t have this platform to spread your nonsense, I guess you’d be out burning crosses.
Do you hate yourself if you get a bit of a tan in the sun?
“I am campaigning to bomb the jihadists in their mosques in Mecca and Medina , to vaporize the madrassas and to hang all your hate preachers”
Oh dear, you seem quite upset. And you say Muslims are blood-thirsty?!
“When did the jihad ever stop?”
Wrong again, my dumb American friend! Jihad started in response to the post-WWII dicking around in the Middle East to protect Israel and to control Arabian oil.
You still can’t join up the dots, can you?
It’s an invasion, that’s it.
They come to our land and breed like rats.
That’s it.
The Jordanian blog troll is now gone.
“Aaron, David, Mark, Luke, Esther” and whatever the poster calls himself is the result of Mohammedan indoctrination.
The product is a mental flatliner, as we can see above.
Instead of answering the question, the troll calls me names. He, the Arab racist, persists in calling others racist. He, the obsessed Arab Muslim who posts under multiple monikers like “fatandstupid@america.org” is too dumb too understand that his desert country, his plucky little king, is largely financed from “fatandstupid” America and that without food imports he and his beloved Arab tribe would eat flys*#t from the walls of their cave.
The jihad, of course, started with Muhammad, the marauding serial rapist, child molester, genocidal killer of Jewish tribes in the 7th century who made it an obligation upon his followers to emulate him.
So much for debating Muslims. There is just no intellectual base.
Their minds are a collective cesspool of hatred and fanaticism.
Here is a summary of how Mohammedans derail any debate.
David,
You are very poorly informed, and perhaps equally as poorly educated.
Firstly harsh comment here is reserved for use against islamists (islamic extremists).-Why – well if you need an explanation what are you doing here?
Please explain why islam is a race? Well it is not – it is an all-encompassing political and social system that seeks to destroy creativity and individuality and replaces all with a uniform tone of “monotone brown”. As such it is open to the most severe criticism.
You are completely incorrect about when Jihad started and what it actually does mean. In fact the implicit definition that you have almost certainly used to frame your argument is based on the most ludicrous beliefs of western guilt which cannot be supported by any serious evaluation of history. The American have nothing to do with the onsett of violent Jihad by muslim thugs – and violent islamic jihad was alive and well before the USA was even born.
The mess that is Africa owes a lot to islamic jihad and the propagation of islam through violence which resulted in the destruction of many pre-European African nations. In perspective the Europeans are blamed because they came last, but the arab muslims did the majority of the damage, as they continue to do so at the present time.
You are one of these morons who fails to recognize that your flawed arguments actually makes the situation of the ground far worse than it need be. The islamists can and will be defeated but the greatest danger to our progress and freedoms comes from idiots like you who are willing to sacrifice
our societies for some for some undefined utopia in the vain hope that this Utopia actually exists. I suggest that you learn to think and then, after you have read and thought about what you have read, try and enlighten the world with your wisdom. Until that time go and spend your time more productively – speaking to victims of islamic intolerance might be useful if you are not too scared of having your rather limited world view challenged.
At present you have little of value to say.
F*ck allah, fu*k muhamad (piss be upon him), f*ck the queeran, fu*ck the kabba, and most of all F*UCK ISLAME!
Last messages from the Jordanian blogtroll, who posted under multiple monikers like Mark, Luke, Matthew, David, Aaron, Saul, Esther etc and called me a “Beast”
Suck it up, Hater. I’m not going anywhere. (posted under “persikas”- a hijacked moniker from one of our regular posters.
Well, now you’re gone. And you won’t be back.
He also posted this here under
christiansoldier: Success…by allowing yourself to be provoked, you have defeated yourself :) (Islamo-logic at work)
johnny:
Kaw:
Calling a religion the religion of the devil is just juvenile. What is there to be gained from it except to feed more hatred?
There are 1 billion Muslims in the world, and they are all humans like you.
(hatred seems to be a monopoly for Mohammedans only…)
Inflating Muslim numbers, posturing, cooking history, lack of any basic understanding and projecting hatred onto others. Standard mohammedan insanity.
The next Hasan Malik in the making….
Simple solution: Send them back. Failing that…ghost them.
Johnny (or whatever your real name is),
What is to be gained from turning your back on more muslim atrocities????
You want to turn your head, then dig your own little sandpit. Do not expect the rest of us to do likewise. Additionally, if muslims cannot be critised without resorting to violence then we have no place for them You want to help – then start convincing your cohorts to behave themselves and to give others the respect that they themselves demand from others. The situation is now very bad – and when the wall is brought down islam will cease to exist – it will cost us a lot, but that is a price we WILL pay for securing the safety of our kids from the evil that is islam. Islam is the local school bully – a thug at heart that runs and cowers when faced with punishment for its own actions.
RabbiD,
The quran is effectively a copy of parts of the old testamant. It is a violent book. The new testament, to which you should be referrring, is not. Stop making excuses for your very badly behaved muslim thug.
kaw, RabbiD or Johnny is the same poster/ blog troll from Jordan.
FYI: The Koran is not a copy of parts of the old testament. (you are much too generous!) There are some verses that are copied, but in effect totally perverted by the meshugga profit pretender.
Sura 5:32 is a perfect example of that…
Interesting that I / we / you are accused of taking verses like 8:39 out of context when it suits Mo’s followers. Islam is like a hall of mirrors, where everything is trick, distortion and illusion.
More from the Jordanian blog troll:
Tut tut…you have allowed yourselves to be provoked, and consequently you have defeated yourselves, but that amuses me greatly.
Either way, you cannot expect to make your hysterical hate-comments without getting some feedback. But maybe it would be better if you all stayed in your trailers and just had your hate conversations amongst yourselves.
If you were so confident in your views, then my comments shouldn’t bother you.
America is the school bully, which is why it is constantly bombing and invading.
Who supported Saddam and sold him all his weapons? The West.
Was Iraq a threat to anyone? Nope, but it’s always good to bomb and kill Arabs isn’t it?
Was Afghanistan a threat to anyone? Nope.
Was Vietnam a threat to anyone? No.
Where were the 9/11 attackers from? Saudi Arabia.
Who supports Saudi Arabia because of its oil? Erm, the US of A.
Were all those democratically elected governments in central and South America a threat? Nope, but the USA overthrew them anyway, ushering in and supporting military dictatorships that tortured to death unknown innocents.
Who supports Israel, the biggest bully in the world? The USA!
The USA deserved 9/11 for its crimes against humanity.
How many 9/11s was Vietnam?
How many 9/11s is Iraq?
How many 9/11s is Afghanistan?
But in your twisted minds, those people don’t count do they?
They’re just gooks and rag-heads.
Morons.
As you can see, the poor zebiba boy is totally brainwashed. Alternative universe, alternative reality, fanatical hatred of the good for being good, just another psycho-killer waiting to happen….
He is one sick puppy.
It is the consanguinity.
The reality of islam: http://blogs.tampabay.com/photo/2009/11/terrorism-thats-personal.html
I am positive it is consanguinity.
I am certain it is consanguinity.
Once the muslim peasants reach mainland Greece in droves, then this issue will really kick off and the Greeks will very quickly close it’s borders as the Spanish did.
Still waters run deep and the Greeks have very strong feelings of hostilities towards the Turks/Islam and have not forgotten the Invasion of Cypress, the 1950′s pogrom against Greeks in Constantinople, and along with the very long memory the Greeks have of 400 years of occupation by the Turks who failed to wipe out Greek culture and Christianity.
Perhaps this will be the catalyst to tear down the mosque the EU manipulated the Greek government into building.
Jordanian troll watch:
The Jew hater confirms his obsession:
He deserves a jihad medal!
No such thing. Not in your wet dreams! Islam attacked Europe. Islam “saved Europe” from what?
Irrelevant.
Would any of the sewer rats around you object? Would they even notice?
“Was Vietnam a threat to anyone? No.”
True. But would America be less likely to attack a non-threatening country if it were Islamic? Consider the cases of the Armenians, the Anatolian Greeks, the Igbos of Biafra, the Dinka of southern Sudan, the East Timorese, the Hindus of Bengladesh. These were all groups of non-threatening peoples who were massacred into the millions by Muslims.
“Who supports Israel, the biggest bully in the world? The USA!”
True but America also supports Egypt where Arab people bully the indiginous Coptic population and America supports Pakistan whose Muslim population brutally bullies the non-Muslim communities. Do you have a problem with that too?
“The USA deserved 9/11 for its crimes against humanity.”
What then do the Muslims deserve for fourteen centuries of mass murder, slavery, and discriminitory legislation?
“But in your twisted minds, those people don’t count do they?
They’re just gooks and rag-heads.”
Compare the reaction of Arab Muslims to events in Iraq and Palestine to events that have taken place against non-Arab Muslims in Bosnia, Chechnya, Sudan, and East Turkmenistan. Not the quite the same is it? I guess the lives of non-Arab Muslims just aren’t worth the same as their Arab brethren.
“Oh come on…this man served his country by enlisting in the US Army. To try to link his rampage with Islam is just wrong and is stoking up hatred. This man was clearly disturbed by hearing about the traumas of war from his patients, a war that was started on a lie.”
He enlisted in the army because the army was willing to pay for his education from undergraduate through medical school in exchange for service to his country. What service did he provide? He told troubled returning soldiers that they were criminals and needed to convert to Islam and of course he went on to murder 12 of them. Sorry pal but you can’t get PTSD vicariously through the stories of others.
“If it wasn’t for the translation centers in Anaducia in the 8th century, the entire classical world would have been forgotten!
Islam actually saved Europe!”
True but it usually wasn’t Muslims who actually did the translations.
“Ever heard of the Stern and Irgun?
They were the terrorists who carried out many attacks against the British in Palestine in the 1940s, including the bombing of the King David hotel in Jerusalem that killed many.
Many of their members went on to become leaders of the Terrorist State of Israel”
They used terrorism against the British military and when the British were driven out they formed a regular army. The King David Hotel, at the time, was used by the British as a military installation. The Arab Muslims inversely have regular armies and employed terrorism when their armies failed. Also they aren’t known for using terrorism against military installations but cafes and shopping areas used by unarmed civilians.
“If I wore a t-shirt with the words ‘Jews are Devil Worshippers’, would it be OK?”
If you live in a Muslim society it would be OK.
Joe:
“True but America also supports Egypt and America supports Pakistan. Do you have a problem with that too?”
Yes! Most of the Arab and Muslim world has a huge problem with that, and is one of the main reasons the West in unpopular. These regimes do not represent Arabs, they are puppet regimes put in place by the West to serve their strategic interests. The West’s support for these regimes has in fact encouraged Islamic radicalism, because secular political discourse has been stifled, and secular movements such as Nationalism and Communism have been tainted by their association with the West. Saddam’s Iraq was just one of these regimes that the West supported, until it longer served their purposes.
“True but it usually wasn’t Muslims who actually did the translations.”
Yes, most of the translators were Jewish and Christian, but the whole project was started and supported by the Islamic government in Andalucia. It also shows that Islam does not have a problem with coexistence with other faiths. In fact it is much more tolerant than Christianity has been in the past – when Ferdinand and Isabella reconquered Andalucia, most of the Jews in places like Cordoba, Toledo and Seville were killed or expelled. When the Crusader army entered Jerusalem, they put everyone to the sword: Jew, Muslim or Christian.
It is Eid Al Adha here in the Middle East today, and I wish you all peace, wherever you are.
More from the Jordanian blog-troll who accused us of committing every crime under the sun. When confronted with facts about Mohammedan genocides he comes back with this:
“Injustices” in Islam-speak means the existence of unbelievers. They must be forcibly converted, subjected to the depredations of dhimmitude or killed.
The Islamo-troll further fantasizes:
Israel belongs to the Jews. Historically, archeologically, biblically and realistically: Israel exists. You know what happens when you f*kc with it: you cop it, Mr Arab…
Besides, there is no “Palestinian Nation”- there never was. Read it. From Azmi Bishara, an Arab Muslim. Every once in a while Mohammedans tell the truth…
Nearly a million Jews were driven out of Arab countries after the 1948 and 1967 wars, when the Arabs wanted to annihilate the Jews. I’m sure you would agree that this is an injustice and that they all deserve to be compensated by the countries who attacked us. We would also make the same claims for the Coptic Christians in Egypt and northern Cyprus, which has been occupied by Turkish soldiers of allah for 30 years. There are also about 100 000 Jews who fled from Iran and Iraq since the ‘Islamic revolution’- no doubt you support their compensation by your fellow Arabs, right?
In todays mail, we find this:
I would agree with you in that we should stop all shipments of weaponry, aid or money to Arab regimes. It might interest your plucky little king that you think of him as a puppet regime put in place by the West. Would you like me to forward your e-mail address to him?
The Mohammedan rulers wanted to know if there was anything in the infidel scriptures they could use to make weapons etc to use against the infidels that were yet to be conquered. Can you think of any other reasons?
“”Islam does not have a problem with coexistence with other faiths.”
Your Koran and sunna speak another language. The historical reality is undeniable: Islam has forcibly converted or wiped out unbelievers everywhere where Islam got the upper hand. Why lie about it? It only confirms that you are a pathological liar….
As for your blood festival:
We don’t celebrate bloody Mohammedan mass- slaughter of animals, we want to stop it from taking place in our countries. We also reject the shipping of live animals to Arab sewer countries.
Peace? You don’t know the meaning of the word!
“It’s not about numbers from dubious sources, and who killed more than the other, or whose religion is ‘better’.
It’s about injustices.”
Dubious sources? Such as historians from accredited universities, journalists and human rights workers? Funny but those same people seem to be perfectly reliable when addressing Iraqi and Palestinian casualties. And I agree it’s about injustices likle those committed by Muslims against non-Muslims, as in the examples I gave and many, many others.
“Israel was created through violence.
The land was S-T-O-L-E-N.
Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were D-I-S-P-L-A-C-E-D.
These are FACTS.”
The land that the Jews inhabited in Palestine prior to the 1948 war were bought by various Jewish agencies including the Jewish National Fund prior to the state’s declaration of indendence. These sales profited Arab landowners and were approved by the Muslim Ottoman Turks. If I buy something, I can’t be said to have stolen it. And while it is true that Arabs were displaced as a result of a war they started, so what? Had the Jews lost as the Arabs predicted the Arabs would have stolen the lands the Jews had bought and developed for their own. They would have raided the banks in Tel-Aviv and killed the Jews living there. As we say in the West, turnabout is fair play. The truth is had there never been a war in the Middle East there never would have been an Israel today. The Arabs would have outpopulated the Jews a long time ago and the Jews would have slowly emmigrated elsewhere or lived under Arab rule. But you wanted victory in blooshed and paid a price for it. Boo-hoo. The Czechs kicked the ethnic Germans out of their country after WW2 as well, as I don’t find fault with them either.
“Yes! Most of the Arab and Muslim world has a huge problem with that, and is one of the main reasons the West in unpopular. These regimes do not represent Arabs, they are puppet regimes put in place by the West to serve their strategic interests. ”
Correction: It isn’t the Pakistani or the Egyptian governments that persecute the non-Muslims in those countries but the people themselves. Furthermore, if democratic elections were held in these countries the religious fundamentalists would come to power.
“Yes, most of the translators were Jewish and Christian, but the whole project was started and supported by the Islamic government in Andalucia. It also shows that Islam does not have a problem with coexistence with other faiths.”
The Islamic government in Andalucia was able to thrive because when the Muslim invaded Spain they raided the smaller kingdoms and robbed them of their gold and wealth, enriching themselves and impoverishing the Christians. I don’t know why the subject of the translation of the Greeks is indicitive of any tolerance towards other religions. Islamic law is rife with discriminatory legislation towards religious minorities. I could quote you from the Hanafi legal books which state that non-Muslims are untrustworthy and cannot testify against a Muslim in court because non-Muslims naturally are jealous of the superiority of the Muslims. The Hanfi codebook also states that the other schools of Islamic jurisprudence are in agreement. This is the laws that the non-Muslims were subject to and you call that peaceful co-existence. Imagine if the US or India were to charge Muslims a special tax to practice their religion, forced them to wear clothes that made them identify their religion, told them they didn’t have equal rights in a court of law, that mosques couldn’t be built higher than a church or temple, and devised other laws to humiliate them. You would shriek racism but this is what Muslims have done to other people.
I don’t believe the Muslims seek justice. You don’t care for the injustices you have inflicted on others, past or present. What you want is victory over other people. That is your idea of justice and I don’t care if you’re victorious.
But why would Afghans want to leave their lovely country, ruled so efficiently by the beautiful and peaceful Islam? Why would Turks want to leave their increasingly fundamentalist Islamic nation?
It takes a tremendous trauma to drive people out of the lands they have occupied for centuries and millennia – and that trauma would be….
Surprise, surprise!
The Arab cult of enslavement of death
Seems like even Muslims don’t want it anymore. I wonder why…
Acharya s
http://FreethoughtNation.com