Can we please stop calling Tariq Ramadan a philosopher?

Philosophy means “love of wisdom”- why would we allow this bloviating, boisterous Islamic supremacist to tarnish our philosophers by placing himself on a pedestal above them?

Here’s that broken record again:

“I am Swiss by nationality. I am European by culture. I’m Egyptian by memory. I am Universalist by principle, and Muslim of course, by religion,” sez brother Tariq.

Well rehearsed crock & schlock.  Brother Tariq’s circus act is annoying. Okay, he has a Swiss passport. Does that make him Swiss?  Wearing a suit and being able to eat with knife and fork doesn’t make him European; his Egyptian memory is irrelevant to us and ‘Universalist’ stands for global Islam. Hassan al Banna’s grandson is a Muslim propagandist, nothing else, and Islam, nothing but Islam matters.

Swiss philosopher tries to find common ground with contemporary Muslims, secular society

In his book, “In the Footsteps of the Prophet”  Swiss “philosopher” Tariq Ramadan explains why the prophet Mohammed is more modern than many believe and why reconciliation between conservative Muslims and secular societies is possible.

Swiss philosopher Tariq Ramadan has been called the Muslim Martin Luther King.

The comparison is absurd. Brother Tariq doesn’t lead a civil rights movement. He wants Islam to rule over blacks and whites.

He’s often described as Europe’s most important Muslim intellectual and travels widely trying to build bridges between European Muslims and conservative clerics.

His inflated ego doesn’t make him  important and he is no ‘intellectual. He is a noisy Muslim missionary, that’s all.

Some countries, including the United States, have banned him. A few years ago, Ramadan was set to move with his family to Indiana, where he’d accepted a teaching job at Notre Dame, but the U.S State Department revoked his visa, alleging that he violated the Patriot Act. Ramadan says it’s because he’s an outspoken critic of U.S. policy, but his critics say he has ties to Muslim terrorists, though no evidence of a direct link has ever surfaced.

Brother Tariq is the emissary of the MuBro’s in Europe, with the family ties to prove it. The Muslim Brotherhood and al Qaeda is one and the same thing. Brother Tariq and Yussuf al Qaradawi are closely connected,  TR supports Hamas & Hizbollah.

One reason Ramadan is so closely scrutinized is his family background. His grandfather, Hassan al-Banna, founded Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, the group that later spawned top leaders in al-Qaeda, but has also recently produced Egypt’s new president and Parliamentary majority. Ramadan himself is a devout Muslim, but one who wants to loosen the strict interpretations of Islamic law.

The opposite is the case.   There is no indication whatsoever that brother Tariq “wants to loosen the strict interpretations of Islamic law.”  He believes absolutely that stoning should be implemented and we have documented it many times.

His book “In the Footsteps of the Prophet,” looks at Muhammad’s life as offering many lessons to contemporary Muslims. Ramadan said despite contemporary views about Muhammad, the prophet was very progressive.

Common muselmanic claptrap.

“The prophet’s life is really an introduction to Islam. So, when you listen to people, the perception they have — it’s all about violence, it’s all about otherness, it’s all about discrimination toward women, and I think all this is wrong,” Ramadan said.

Just don’t look if you don’t like it, sez Tariq.

According to Ramadan, Muhammad was especially forward thinking about the status of women. He respected and valued women, though they weren’t valued in society, and welcomed women into mosques.

That’s why he had 15 of them,  including sex slaves and a child bride, and he taught beating them is cool.

“And even domestic violence — they can’t just quote one part of a verse in the Quran, forgetting that the prophet himself never beat women. He was so respectful. So, if he is our example, we cannot accept domestic violence. This is not Islamic,” Ramadan said.

Muhammad beat Aisha. Its in the Koran. Tariq is a liar.

Ramadan seeks to find the common ground between secular Europeans and conservative Muslims who live in the Middle East. He has lived in several European countries and in Egypt, his country of origin.

There is no common ground.

“I am Swiss by nationality. I am European by culture. I’m Egyptian by memory. I am Universalist by principle, and Muslim of course, by religion,” he said.

Please!

Ramadan said the problem is not a clash of cultures, but rather, a clash of perceptions that can be deconstructed to get to common ground.

Its culture against civilisation.  Its us against Islamic barbarity. You can clash between cultures, but don’t mention Islam.  Indoctrination is the cure for “Islamophobia”, or else…..

Islam is a minority religion in countries like France and England. In most Middle Eastern countries, there’s no effort to separate religion and politics, but in Europe, especially in France — there’s absolutely strict separation.

Tell me something I don’t now!

Many have said this has caused major problems for Muslims living in Europe. But Ramadan said this poses no problem for the five million Muslims already living in France. Instead, he said many French Muslims are dealing with discrimination and social marginalization.

These five million infiltrators are living like maggots in cheese  compared with how their coreligionists live in Morocco or Algeria. But don’t mention the jihad, the hatred of French infidels and the desire of muselmanic conquest.

“When we had the riots in the suburbs in November 2005, you had politicians speaking about them as if they were not French citizens,” Ramadan said. “I really think all this perception that Muslims cannot live in secular society is totally wrong. Millions are already doing it, living it, experiencing it.”

A soldier of allah with a French passport is not and never will be a Frenchman. The fact that they live behind enemy lines,  biting their time doesn’t mean they are integrated or will ever assimilate. The French should be, and they are, very worried indeed.

Ramadan has served as a voice of reform within the Islamic world. In 2010, he called for a moratorium on corporal punishment and stoning of women.

His call for moratorium angered a lot of conservatives and led Saudi Arabia and Egypt to ban him from entering their countries.

Absolute BS. He called for a moratorium for stoning in France. No ‘conservative’ was angered and nobody in Arabia banned him, that’s just rubbish.

“My point here is not to please the West or to please the Islamic majority countries,” Ramadan said. “My point is really to be consistent with my values and principles of justice.”

He didn’t make a point. He wants stoning to be implemented in the Islamic state.

Ramadan believes his values and principles on U.S. policy in Iraq and Israel led the U.S. to revoke his visa.

“I was saying, Look. Resistance is legitimate. The means they are using are not. But resistance is legitimate, and your invasion of Iraq was a mistake, it was illegal. So, I think that these are the main reasons,” Ramadan said.

All wrong. Nothing illegal, except the Islamic propaganda and the spin. ‘Resistance’ means  jihad. Ramadan is a genocidal lunatic.

Ramadan later found out he was banned from the United States because he gave €700 to a Swiss organization that was connected to Hamas. Ramadan, though, points out the group is officially recognized by the Swiss government.

We know what Hamas is.

“I myself told the American Embassy that I gave the money between 1998 and 2002 to help the organization to build schools. This organization was blacklisted in the States in 2003. I got a letter from the American Embassy telling me ‘You should reasonably have known that this organization was connected to Hamas.’ It’s ridiculous. How could I have known this?,” Ramadan said. “So it’s clear to me that this is a pretext and the true reason is that I’m vocal. I’m speaking loudly against the American policy in the region.”

After a lengthy legal battle, in January 2010, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton rescinded the ban on Ramadan visiting the United States. In April of that year, he spoke at a panel discussion in New York.

We all know that Shrillary is in the bag for the MuBro’s. What we don’t know is how much Huma Abedin has her fingers in this.

 

57 thoughts on “Can we please stop calling Tariq Ramadan a philosopher?”

  1. “A soldier of allah with a French passport is not and never will be a Frenchman…”

    Indeed!

    Setz’ dir Perücken auf von Millionen Locken, Setz’ deinen Fuss auf eilen hohe Socken, Du bleibst doch immer was du bist.” (From Goethe’s Faust.)

    Unfortunately this Taric Ramadin (Taquia would be a better name for him) slimes his way into all the dhimmy media in France all the time. But not only in France, even here in Australia he is feted in certain quarters: On the ABC Religous web site they adore him and often publish his islamist propaganda – unchallenged (eg even before the little bodies of the Jewish children, massacred by Mohamed Merah – an arab islamist who called himself also ‘French’, were cold, this ABC site published an eulogy on the “poor killer” and it was all France’s fault, written by this slimey Ramadin.
    I suspect the ABC and assorted islamophiles that they probably see nothing wrong with the “real” Tariq Ramadin here, where he prays for jihad against Jews and Christians:

  2. Whoops: the little quotation from Goethe’s Faust should read:

    Du bist am Ende – was du bist. Setz’ dir Perücken auf von Millionen Locken, Setz’ deinen Fuß auf ellenhohe Socken, Du bleibst doch immer, was du bist. Faust.

    (roughly translated: In the end you are what you are: you may wear wigs wiht millions of curls, you may wear mile-high shoes, you will still be only what you are).

  3. This article seriously lacks intellectual depth. You (the writer) calling Tariq Ramadan a propagandist is quite absurd, cuz all I see in this article is a very poorly constructed propaganda. You probably never read a book by Tariq Ramadan, and the amount of misinformation on Islamic matters written up there is honestly disgusting. You fit most to Professor Tariq’s description of a “youtube critic”.

    I find it majorly hypocritical when certain individuals are just as extreme as the extremists they attempt to ridicule. Sadly, most of the readers are too shallow to realize this.

    1. ‘Intellectual depth’ a la Ramadan?

      “the Koran is the word of allah because it says so in the Koran”- the stupidity behind circular reasoning is indeed d.i.s.g.u.s.t.i.n.g.

      And you? How ‘intellectual’ are you to insult our readers with “certain individuals are just as extreme as the extremists” trash when we merely point out the fundamental flaws of your 7th century blood cult?

  4. “the Koran is the word of allah because it says so in the Koran”- the stupidity behind circular reasoning is indeed d.i.s.g.u.s.t.i.n.g.”

    Yes I do agree that this sort of circular reasoning is more or less idiotic. We as Muslims have arguments way deeper than “the Koran is the word of Allah because it says so”. But you just want to BASH, so why listen?

    You didn’t reasonably point out anything about this so called ‘blood cult’ in a constructive manner. Anyone could prove anything through the ‘cut n paste’ approach you’re using. I didn’t insult anyone. I was only pointing out that most followers of these religious and political issues tend to show some serious shallow reasoning in the conclusion they make out of such propaganda filled writings such as yours.

    1. I’m glad you agree that circular reasoning is idiotic.

      But please tell me, Abdulrahman,

      If indeed “Muslims have arguments way deeper” than circular reasoning you are most welcome to prove it. However, dealing with muslims for most of my life I have long come to the conclusion that Muslims have abandoned reason ever since Muhammad told them not to ask any questions.

      There are many discussions in the annals of this blog where muslims tried to do da’awa in a ‘constructive manner’.

      Islam, however, is not constructive. Islam destroys any culture and civilisation to replace it with… Islam.

      Your accusative ‘cut & paste’ approach is shallow; I’m happy to discuss anything if it doesn’t include the abandonment of reason, which is always a a basic requirement to level with muslims. Tariq Ramadan is no exception.

      As for ‘you just want to bash’ it is easy for me to point you in the direction of your coreligionists, who find their pleasure in bashing and insulting the kafirs.

      If that insults you, so be it. Nobody has the right not to be insulted.

      And “propaganda filled writings such as yours” is, to use your accusation, a shallow attempt to denigrate my effort to expose the shortcomings of the pseudo philosopher Tariq Ramadan, who’s da’wa effort may be admirable, whereas substance is entirely lacking.

  5. Mohammad (pbuh) never told us not to ask any questions (not in that context, no). Coming to the conclusion that the Koran is of divine authority takes way more than a simple statement in that very book. Believe it or not, a lot of reason is involved. If so, then why does the Koran address its readers as those ‘possessed of understanding’ over and over again? Why does it say that these verses and signs are for ‘people who think deeply’ or ‘people who ponder’?

    It all starts off by belief in a creator. A whole chunk of the Koran is dedicated to turning our attention to the universe (our surroundings and our very selves) in order to come to the conclusion that a creator is the cause of existence. Once we establish that reality, we turn to the question of ‘who’ created us, and ‘why’. As you read the Koran, it takes you onto a journey of deep thought, provoking questions, and forceful reasoning, all of which cling together in a fascinating manner. Now considering God is a necessity, religion (in general) claims knowledge of him, and the fact that the Koran remains one of the very few (if not the only) unaltered scriptures since the time of its revelation, I then believe it deserves some examining. As a believer in God, I found that the Koran is the only preserved book that talks of God. The Koran discusses almost every major ideology we have in existence, so openly, in a manner that has managed to grasped me enough to come to the conclusion that the knowledge of our creator cannot exist elsewhere. For you, that may not be the case. No problem.

    “Islam, however, is not constructive. Islam destroys any culture and civilisation to replace it with… Islam.”

    Islam does not do or call for that. The fact that Muslims may have done that throughout history does not mean Islam calls for it. Back to the argument of “Muslims do not represent Islam just as much as Atheists do not represent Atheism”. I remember the saying if the famous Islamic thinker, Dr. Abdulwahab Al Miseeri, “We must distinguish between the holiness of Islam, and the reality of Islamic history. To make our history holy is as if god himself materialized into our world and ran our daily issues.” In order to come to a serious intellectual discussion about the text, we must realize this issue.

    My ‘cut n paste’ accusation is anything but shallow, cuz your article is just up there. In order to constructively criticize with a comprehensive view of Prof Tariq’s works, you must be reasonably academic about it. Your definitions of jihad and other Islamic concepts are embarrassingly lacking. Your representation of Prof Tariq’s views are completely biased and probably based on youtube videos (no offense). In order to have a complete picture of Islamic concepts, you must take into consideration the context and situation in which they were revealed (which in most cases is obvious by reading a few verses before and after the ‘evil’ ones you quote), other verses and authentic prophetic traditions relating to the very issues you address (which in several cases completely negate the verses you quote, because you simply quote them out of context or without elaborating the overall meaning), and you must as well read a couple of Prof Tariq’s books in order to make such judgements (I’m sure you haven’t read any. “What I believe”? “Radical Reform”? “In the footsteps of the Prophet”?). You have done non of that.

    Forget about all the semantics. Ok so he isn’t a philosopher and he lacks substance, but why? The guy is specialized in philosophical theology, and is one of the leading figures in analyzing contemporary political and socioeconomic developments, I advise you to read more of his work before accusing him of ‘lacking substance’.

    1. Mohammad (pbuh) never told us not to ask any questions (not in that context, no). Coming to the conclusion that the Koran is of divine authority takes way more than a simple statement in that very book. Believe it or not, a lot of reason is involved. If so, then why does the Koran address its readers as those ‘possessed of understanding’ over and over again? Why does it say that these verses and signs are for ‘people who think deeply’ or ‘people who ponder’?

      Believe it or not?

      I believe not. I’m a non-muslim. I reject islam. There is nothing ‘divine’ in Islam. Islam requires the abandonment of reason. I tried to tell you, but you insist on circular reasoning again to prove… nothing.

      “why does the Koran address its readers as those ‘possessed of understanding’ over and over again?”

      Whether it does or doesn’t make muslims any more intelligent. 70% of the worlds muslims are illiterate, ignorant and poor because of Islam. Please explain!

      It all starts off by belief in a creator. A whole chunk of the Koran is dedicated to turning our attention to the universe (our surroundings and our very selves) in order to come to the conclusion that a creator is the cause of existence. Once we establish that reality, we turn to the question of ‘who’ created us, and ‘why’. As you read the Koran, it takes you onto a journey of deep thought, provoking questions, and forceful reasoning, all of which cling together in a fascinating manner. Now considering God is a necessity, religion (in general) claims knowledge of him, and the fact that the Koran remains one of the very few (if not the only) unaltered scriptures since the time of its revelation, I then believe it deserves some examining. As a believer in God, I found that the Koran is the only preserved book that talks of God. The Koran discusses almost every major ideology we have in existence, so openly, in a manner that has managed to grasped me enough to come to the conclusion that the knowledge of our creator cannot exist elsewhere. For you, that may not be the case. No problem.

      “read the Koran”

      I have read the Koran multiple times. I am an Islamic scholar. I have written more than 400 Koran commentaries. Most of the Koran tells us how to deal with ‘kafirs’ or ‘mushrikeen’.

      Mohammed is more highly worshiped in Islam than Allah. Muslims don’t admit to that but Mohammed is the one with all the answers, nobody but him ever communicated with Allah, had a relationship with Allah or had any evidence of Allah’s existence except through the person of the one and only prophet worthy of dealing with Allah on a one on one basis. An illiterate, violent, disturbed, Jew hating pedophile.
      Islam is touted as the religion of peace and yet 60% of the “holy” book talks about violence and waging jihad on non-muslims. One hundred and sixty four verses in the Koran explain how killing non-muslims is allowed/required.

      The Koran in a war-manual for desert dwellers. You couldn’t be more mistaken if you believe “the conclusion that the knowledge of our creator cannot exist elsewhere.”

      “Islam, however, is not constructive. Islam destroys any culture and civilisation to replace it with… Islam.”

      Islam does not do or call for that. The fact that Muslims may have done that throughout history does not mean Islam calls for it. Back to the argument of “Muslims do not represent Islam just as much as Atheists do not represent Atheism”. I remember the saying if the famous Islamic thinker, Dr. Abdulwahab Al Miseeri, “We must distinguish between the holiness of Islam, and the reality of Islamic history. To make our history holy is as if god himself materialized into our world and ran our daily issues.” In order to come to a serious intellectual discussion about the text, we must realize this issue.

      Islam does exactly that and had 1400 years of history to prove it. Just because a man beats his wife doesn’t mean he hates her, right? That’s your line of argumentation. If the evidence is in front of you its no use to deny it, if a murderer is caught in the act there’s not much use denying it. What’s the point?

      So you’re a Wahabite? A Saudi in Malaysia?

      My ‘cut n paste’ accusation is anything but shallow, cuz your article is just up there. In order to constructively criticize with a comprehensive view of Prof Tariq’s works, you must be reasonably academic about it. Your definitions of jihad and other Islamic concepts are embarrassingly lacking. Your representation of Prof Tariq’s views are completely biased and probably based on youtube videos (no offense). In order to have a complete picture of Islamic concepts, you must take into consideration the context and situation in which they were revealed (which in most cases is obvious by reading a few verses before and after the ‘evil’ ones you quote), other verses and authentic prophetic traditions relating to the very issues you address (which in several cases completely negate the verses you quote, because you simply quote them out of context or without elaborating the overall meaning), and you must as well read a couple of Prof Tariq’s books in order to make such judgements (I’m sure you haven’t read any. “What I believe”? “Radical Reform”? “In the footsteps of the Prophet”?). You have done non of that.

      “a comprehensive view of Prof Tariq’s works, you must be reasonably academic about it. Your definitions of jihad and other Islamic concepts are embarrassingly lacking.”

      I don’t have to be ‘academic’ about Hassan al Banna’s grandson because he is nothing more than a Islamopropagandist. He is a pseudo-intellectual, a boisterous supremacist and no matter how much lipstick he puts on, it doesn’t make him a ‘philosopher’ and even less a ‘reformer’. There is nothing intellectual about him and the “jihad is inner struggle” rubbish is an insult to anyone who is familiar with the doctrine. A guy who goes on French National TV and calls for stoning of adulterous women is a primitive swine. That’s all one needs to know about this Islamic supremacist.

      Forget about all the semantics. Ok so he isn’t a philosopher and he lacks substance, but why? The guy is specialized in philosophical theology, and is one of the leading figures in analyzing contemporary political and socioeconomic developments, I advise you to read more of his work before accusing him of ‘lacking substance’.

      Brother Tariq a “leading figure?” For whom? What does he lead other than muslim infiltrators in the west who are told to bite their time and wait till the time for jihad comes?

      Still nothing more than shallow drivel, Abdul. Where’s the meat?

  6. First off, I am not trying to prove anything to you. Yes, it is quite obvious you are a non-believer, and I am by no means trying to changed that. You asked for a reason for my belief that the Koran is divine other than the book stating so. Therefore, I attempted to show you part of that chain of reason which lead me to the belief in God’s existence, and then the belief that the Koran is of God. What ‘proof’ do you want? You want me to bring you a talking camel that says that the Koran is the word of God in order for it not to be ‘circular reasoning’? No, you obviously want me to show you what I found in the Koran that was logical enough for me to believe, and that’s what I did. You agreeing with that logic or not is besides the point.

    Islam requires the abandonment of reason? Quote from the Koran please. (so I can show you that ‘cut n paste’ approach”

    “70% of the worlds muslims are illiterate, ignorant and poor because of Islam. Please explain!”

    You thik you could just squeeze that ‘because of Islam’ part, with everyone reading on thinking that you’ve stated a fact? Well, that’s what I meant by ‘shallow readers’. I have no explaining to do on this extremely over-simplified, dishonest, and misleading statistic of yours. (not the numbers I’m complaining about)

    “Islam does exactly that and had 1400 years of history to prove it. Just because a man beats his wife doesn’t mean he hates her, right? That’s your line of argumentation. If the evidence is in front of you its no use to deny it, if a murderer is caught in the act there’s not much use denying it. What’s the point?”

    I don’t get you, this is your response to me basically saying “learn how to distinguish between the history of events and the actual text”?? :/ (circular reasoning?)

    “So you’re a Wahabite? A Saudi in Malaysia?”

    No, I’m not a Wahabite, I’m not a Saudi, and yes, I’m in Malaysia. (Epic randomness)

    “I don’t have to be ‘academic’ about Hassan al Banna’s grandson because he is nothing more than a Islamopropagandist. He is a pseudo-intellectual, a boisterous supremacist and no matter how much lipstick he puts on, it doesn’t make him a ‘philosopher’ and even less a ‘reformer’. There is nothing intellectual about him and the “jihad is inner struggle” rubbish is an insult to anyone who is familiar with the doctrine. A guy who goes on French National TV and calls for stoning of adulterous women is a primitive swine. That’s all one needs to know about this Islamic supremacist.”

    You probably never read two sentences written by Hasan Al Banna (comon, you know I’m right). He didn’t caqll for the stoning of anyone. He said it is a reality that we cannot deny, and we must solve if by opening it for discussion. Surprisingly enough, he is completely against stoning (READ). The rest you said up there is just a bunch of bashing, nothing constructive, and nothing proven. Fact.

    “Brother Tariq a “leading figure?” For whom? What does he lead other than muslim infiltrators in the west who are told to bite their time and wait till the time for jihad comes?”

    He is a leading fiugure who’s books are taught in over 80 American universities. Surely, they must have seen in his works what you haven’t. lol @ the rest of what you said, like seriously! Wait till jihad comes?? And you accuse him of being a propagandist who ‘lacks substance’?? I really wonder who gets fooled by these words!Unbelievably hilarious, way too hyped up, and not worthy of any kind of response.

    Oh and, one last part.

    “One hundred and sixty four verses in the Koran explain how killing non-muslims is allowed/required.”

    Please quote THREE of these verses and I will show you how you are completely misleading and out of context. Thanks

  7. No Adul, I’m not playing your game.

    I’m not going to nail jelly to the wall.

    Yes, it makes more sense to talk with a camel than with a moslem.

    “70% of the worlds muslims are illiterate, ignorant and poor because of Islam. Please explain!”

    I asked you to explain. You deny the fact. If you deny the fact, then why do you expect me to take you seriously?

    “learn how to distinguish between the history of events and the actual text”

    All Islamic jurisprudence, warfare and history is based on Koran, sira and hadith, what’s there to argue about? Your history is a result of that.

    Ramadan’s books are taught in over 80 American universities?

    Prove it. If indeed true, it is a disaster for America.

    Even if so, does that make it right? Whom does it help? What does it do other than propagate, whitewash Islam?

    If there are a thousand fools who go over a cliff does that prove them right?

    Just read what you wrote:

    “Hasan Al Banna didn’t caqll for the stoning of anyone. He said it is a reality that we cannot deny, and we must solve if by opening it for discussion.”

    Now what is there to be discussed?

    I already told you that this kind of thing is utterly barbaric, idiotic and only helps to expose Islam for the awful blood-cult it is. And you deny and confirm it in the same sentence.

    You are a true Muslim, Abdul.

    Hopeless.

    And for the Koran being “out of context”-

    Please invent something new, its been done to death.

    The Koran is the immutable word of allah for all time and any place, is it not?

    So how can it ever, how can anything from the Koran ever be “out of context?”

    Idiotic, Abdul.

    Primitive. Stoopid!

  8. “I asked you to explain. You deny the fact. If you deny the fact, then why do you expect me to take you seriously?”

    I didn’t deny the fact that 70% are illiterate. I denied the claim that it is because of Islam, which is such a shallow and misleading statement to make. Such a ‘lazy’ claim too..like “I do not want to do my research and know why they are ignorant, so lets just say it’s because of Islam!” (Even though I doubt your intentions were that pure)

    As for me explaining, I do not need to, cuz I agree with you. The majority of Muslims are more of a burden on the world these days, and that is an issue we have to address.. (not just bash for the sake of bashing)

    “Yes, it makes more sense to talk with a camel than with a moslem.”

    Well..maybe that just shows how much ‘sense’ you have in you, eh? :/

    “All Islamic jurisprudence, warfare and history is based on Koran, sira and hadith, what’s there to argue about?”

    Are you confused? Islamic jurisprudence would obviously be based on Islamic sources, simply because it’s JURISPRUDENCE. Warfare is an issue that is justified at all times, by all means, and by all people (even today). In fact, if you ever did READ anything on Islamic history, it was no where nearly as bloody as other empires and regions. And again, everyone justified with whatever they could; the Muslims used the Koran, the Christians used the bible, and the Americans use democracy and human rights. Surely, this doesn’t mean that the Koran, the bible, or democracy and human rights are bad!! (again, extremely shallow). Then you come to history..how come you do not dare to mention all the positive sides the Muslims contributed to the world throughout their history?? (which can only be denied by a brainwashed, extremely biased person) ..As I said in my first post here, I find it very hypocritical when those who claim to be enlightened/intellectual/neutral/objective in their analysis turn out to be extremely shallow and nonacademic in their approach to ‘the great evil of Islam’..

    “Now what is there to be discussed?”

    The reality in that context being the fact that some people do believe in it. That is a reality, and it must be addressed. Not by saying “no, you are evil, you are wrong, and I’m going to start a website just for bashing you evil people”..no, but educationally. Through education, and through an objective analysis of the text. That is what Tariq Ramadan said, and actually succeeded in doing in Morocco and Tunisia.

    “Prove it. If indeed true, it is a disaster for America.”

    http://www.google.com

    “Even if so, does that make it right? Whom does it help? What does it do other than propagate, whitewash Islam?”

    Yea it doesn’t prove much persay, but it does prove he is a leading figure in his field. However, only his actual works can prove whether it is any good or bad for the world, and that is something you rarely touch in this article. As I said earlier, forget about youtube and read his books, if you are intellectually sincere, that is!

    “The Koran is the immutable word of allah for all time and any place, is it not?”

    God you are really pushing this, even that very statement is out of context! We are speaking of the interpretation of the Koran, and not the actual words. (please make a whole conspiracy out of that too..I know it’s itching)

    “Idiotic, Abdul. Primitive. Stoopid!”

    I thank you for your peace-loving, non-Islamic, jihad-resisting, women-saving manners.

    1. Abdul,

      since when is the Koran open for “interpretation?”

      In addition:

      “To explain or to interpret the Quran is surely an attempt to undermine the pure word of allah. To adulterate it with a human perspective …”

  9. LOL indeed:

    This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.

    Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10; “The Cow,” Dawood, pp. 1-2

  10. Religion is a human creation, based on human concepts and human understanding. Understanding this points to the mechanisms whereby people like Abdulrahmen can passionately claim that some book is a book containing the words of God. Yet the concept of a religion shows that such a claim is frivolous at best, incorrect at worst. Abdulrahmen, your argument is not based on logic, it is based on faith (there is a very subtle and deep difference which you have not understood), and it works for you. Keep it for yourself – others have to find their own way and we are not interested in what you believe.

  11. Kaw, I never shoved it down your throat, have I? It is only ‘logical’ that you think of what you do not agree with as ‘illogical’, no problem there. As for me, the logic works. What you are trying to do now is forcefully put forward YOUR opinion of religion. Well, I’ll just throw your words right back at ya! “Keep it for yourself – others have to find their own way and we are not interested in what you believe.”

  12. sheikyermami: It is very difficult to have a discussion with someone who does not know what he/she is talking about, so I’ll just end it by saying that what you think of Islam is one thing, but to believe that any sincere Muslims is a time bomb “waiting for the right time to declare jihad”, then it is you with the issues, my friend. Serious issues!

    Take care

  13. As I said, issues! Thinking of any society in such a naive, emotional, and primitive manner as yours, I firmly believe that YOU are the time bomb. And I don’t see much difference (ideologically) between you and Al Qaeda.

  14. “Emotional and primitive manners?”

    Abdul? Are you for real?

    Exposing Mohammedanism makes me just like al Qaeda?

    Are you sober, Abdul?

    You call yourself intelligent?

    You deny the basic tenets of your faith?

    Muhammad said, “I have been ordered to fight against people until they say that “there is no god but Allah”-

    what do you think that means? If you don’t understand it, let Tariq Ramadan explain it to you!

    Besides, you are calling me a warmonger?

    The question must be asked: what peace are we talking about? Islamic peace. How does Islamic peace come about? Islamic peace comes after jihad and the victory of Islam. Peace is one of those words that everyone considers to be universally good, but peace is what losers (kafirs) get, while winners (Muslims) get victory. Islamic peace is all about the victory over the kafirs. Islamic peace changes a free man into a slave of Allah.

  15. Yes, I am for real, I’m sober, I didn’t call myself intelligent, and you really do not need to divert the topic to a psychological analysis on me.

    Don’t flatter yourself, you are not exposing anything, and this website’s content is seriously not worth a second look (I am saying this sincerely, like I have seen way better, more academic and intellectual criticisms of Islam). What you have here is nothing but a bunch of verses and hadiths (like the one you mentioned up there) taken out of their historical, linguistic, and textual context in order to create this ‘big scary monster’ of Islam. If you do not even know that there is something called interpretation of Islamic texts (that even the prophet himself did on authentic accounts), and that war in Islam comes with very strict guidelines (killing a non oppressor is as if you have killed the whole world, unlike some people who think its ok to nuke cities off the face of the earth), if u do not know these basics, then what makes you think you have the ability to ‘expose’ anything?

    Lets face it, some readers can be extremely naive, and thats the fish you aim for.

  16. Oh and, what makes you similar to Al Qaeda is obviously way more than your amazing attempt to ‘expose Islam’, but the ill impression you have of around quarter of the human race (Muslims). You are intolerant and you only see EVIL in Islam, regardless of how much good you are shown. You are judgmental towards people’s intentions; even if a very pluralistic form of Islam is preached, they have bad intentions and are waiting for jihad.

    This intolerant and discriminative view you have towards a huge group of people, based on their faith, is what makes you similar to Al Qaeda. All you need now are some explosives, obsessive media coverage, and CIA funding, then you got your self a terrorist organization.

    1. Resisting Islam is terrorism?

      You are a good muselmaniac, Abdul. You really start making sense.

      “You are intolerant”-

      Really?

      Tell me:

      Why should I tolerate

      Muslim invasion,
      Child marriage,
      Polygamy,
      Sharia, like stoning, flogging, chopping of heads and limbs,
      clit cutting,
      wife beating,
      burqa, niqab, hijab, shrouds…
      slavery
      Jew-hatred
      genocide
      humiliation of non muslims
      jizia
      terrorism
      jihad
      sharia law
      dhimmitude

      Tell me: what’s there to tolerate?

      What you call humanity doesn’t tolerate, doesn’t respect non muslims. It allows Christians and Jews to live in a state of chastened subservience; provided they pay the jiziya in a state of submission. Until they finally decide to eliminate them, just like the Turks eliminated the Armenian Christians. Just like the Muslim invaders in Egypt are eliminating the remaining 8 million Coptic Christians.

      You can delude yourself with fantasies of “explosives, obsessive media coverage, and CIA funding”, Abdul, but we are still a long way from nuking Mecca. Unfortunately.

  17. Al Qaeda tells the truth about Islam, so do I. So we do have something in common; but that doesn’t make me like them. They breath air and eat food, so do I. That’s where similarities end.

    You say:

    “war in Islam comes with very strict guidelines (killing a non oppressor is as if you have killed the whole world)”

    which is verse 5:32 in the Qur’an and denounces killing and equates the slaying of one human life to that of genocide against the entirety of mankind.

    The verse is lifted from the Talmud, Muhammad turned it into a warning for Jews.

    Whenever muselmanic taqiyya artists quote the verse they leave out the context:

    Quoting Qur’an 5:32 without 5:33
    From Pickthall:

    32. For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had: saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah’ssovereignty) , but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.

    Who are the corruptors (and mischief-makers in some translations)?

    “Non-Muslims ‘cannot be called human beings but are animals who roam the earth and engage in corruption.’ said Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati last week at a ceremony in north-eastern Iran to commemorate the ‘martyrs’ of the Revolutionary Guards and the war against Iraq.

    When a Muslim quotes 5.32 and leaves out 5.33, what does that tell me?

    “The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land” (Qur’an 5:33).

    Resisting Islam makes me a terrorist?

    Hahahahaha!

  18. Abdulrahmen,
    Shove it!!! The huge difference between us and you (muslims) is that we do not use guns and explosives to win arguments (AQ is solely a muslim creation), We try and enhance humanity through arts, science and education, you (muslims) destroy all that is creative and intellectual. We respect all other religions. Muslim destroy all other religions except their own and slowly we are starting to see that islam cannot be tolerated because of its actions. You are responsible for the contempt in which the world holds islam- You and only you (muslims)!!!!!. As Sheik writes, we will probably never nuke you arab scum, but that is what you richly deserve.

  19. Incidentally abdulrahmen, one does not need to study the quran to understand muslims – one can deduce a great deal from observation of their behavior. This is well beyond you, but that is how we study stars – by deduction from careful observation. And this process, along with inspect of the quran, shows that muslims are not worth the time it takes to type a full stop. As for your arguments – as I told another musim idiot called mhadjen, there is NO central authority to interpret islamic dogma – and that means that all your argument on the interpretation of the quran and hadiths is nonsense. But that is typically muslim – lie to save face. Well, you have no face here, you have no worth, and you have no currency. We do not care if you die tomorrow, but threaten us and we will send you to your 72 tired camels in hell. You morons bleat that you value only death – then perhaps we should start sending you to the other side – YOUR CHOICE.

  20. Kaw, I’ll respond to you first, cuz apparently you turned you to be an even bigger idiot than sheik (and that tells A LOT).

    1) Yes, some Muslims do use guns and bombs to ‘win arguments’, but if you’d educate yourself and read a little on the history of your ‘enlightened’ people, you’ll see that everyone has done the same. No, worse. What happened throughout the crusades, what happened during the world wars, and what is still happening today in the name of democracy (Killing millions of innocent people whom u call terrorists. Yes, millions. I dare you to object), doesn’t have much to do with Islam. At the same time, Muslims never wiped out a race of people (red indians, for ex), and Muslims never killed over 80,000 innocent souls in one night (while still looking like ‘freedom fighters), no, your enlightened artistic and scientific culture has to take the blame for that, so please do not point fingers unless you know what you are talking about.

    2) It would be very naive of anybody not to notice that a lot of what is happening in the middle east, in terms of terrorism, is politically motivated. You’d be an IDIOT not to admit that (oh wait, you are.). Yes, there ARE extremists, but if you’d take the time to read, understand, and examine the mainstream Islamic worldview, you’d see that a) We are the first harmed by the extremists, and b) We are more against them than you are.
    But you dont want to do that, cuz we are all evil jihadists. Disgusting mindset.

    3) “we will probably never nuke you arab scum, but that is what you richly deserve.” You claim that 300 million humans deserved to be burnt into fumes, and yet you call me the extremist? Again, disgusting.

    4) “This is well beyond you, but that is how we study stars – by deduction from careful observation. And this process, along with inspect of the quran, shows that muslims are not worth the time it takes to type a full stop.”

    Yea it’s well beyond me, cuz I’m an idiot who knows nothing about sociology or anything to do with the study of human societies, but I still talk about it cuz I’m not a Muslim, and that makes me smart. Learn: you understand people by interacting with them, not by observing them, cuz they are not stars, Einstein. I have lived in the west, I am a Canadian Muslim, and I can tell you that what you are saying is absolute BULL. Muslim communities have integrated with almost everything in western societies, while still maintaining their Islamic principles (maybe cuz they are waiting for jihad right). Just like any other society, there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. You only see the bad and the ugly. simply cuz you’re bad and ugly. But you do not represent your people; there are plenty of well educated, well mannered western non-Muslims who respect every human for what he is, not what he believes (at least I have the intellectual honesty to admit that). People like you are dangerous for the world, and that is why I say you are the true terrorists. Whether you are a Muslim who thinks extremely, or a non-Muslim who thinks like yourself, you’re both the same.

    5) “there is NO central authority to interpret islamic dogma”

    You are right. That IS a problem. A problem that must be addressed educationally. The way you’re dealing with it is this: “there is no central authority, so anyone can do what he wants, oh my, its a mess, LETS JUST SAY ITS ALL BAD”. No, Einstein, education is the answer, open discussions, and sincerity. Not idiocy.
    And wait – how does that nullify my argument? I don’t get what you’re talking out of here; if there is no central authority, does that mean it is not open for scholarly interpretation? Does that not mean that the basic guidelines and sources are there? Dude, ahh nothing.. :/

    6) “threaten us and we will send you to your 72 tired camels in hell. You morons bleat that you value only death – then perhaps we should start sending you to the other side – YOUR CHOICE.”

    Disgusting. I feel like I’m talking to someone from the middle ages, and responding to you would only make me the same.

  21. Kaw, I’ll respond to you first, cuz apparently you turned you to be an even bigger idiot than sheik (and that tells A LOT).

    1) Yes, some Muslims do use guns and bombs to ‘win arguments’, but if you’d educate yourself and read a little on the history of your ‘enlightened’ people, you’ll see that everyone has done the same. No, worse. What happened throughout the crusades, what happened during the world wars, and what is still happening today in the name of democracy (Killing millions of innocent people whom u call terrorists. Yes, millions. I dare you to object), doesn’t have much to do with Islam. At the same time, Muslims never wiped out a race of people (red indians, for ex), and Muslims never killed over 80,000 innocent souls in one night (while still looking like ‘freedom fighters), no, your enlightened artistic and scientific culture has to take the blame for that, so please do not point fingers unless you know what you are talking about.

    2) It would be very naive of anybody not to notice that a lot of what is happening in the middle east, in terms of terrorism, is politically motivated. You’d be an IDIOT not to admit that (oh wait, you are.). Yes, there ARE extremists, but if you’d take the time to read, understand, and examine the mainstream Islamic worldview, you’d see that a) We are the first harmed by the extremists, and b) We are more against them than you are.
    But you dont want to do that, cuz we are all evil jihadists. Disgusting mindset.

    3) “we will probably never nuke you arab scum, but that is what you richly deserve.” You claim that 300 million humans deserved to be burnt into fumes, and yet you call me the extremist? Again, disgusting.

    4) “This is well beyond you, but that is how we study stars – by deduction from careful observation. And this process, along with inspect of the quran, shows that muslims are not worth the time it takes to type a full stop.”

    Yea it’s well beyond me, cuz I’m an idiot who knows nothing about sociology or anything to do with the study of human societies, but I still talk about it cuz I’m not a Muslim, and that makes me smart. Learn: you understand people by interacting with them, not by observing them, cuz they are not stars, Einstein. I have lived in the west, I am a Canadian Muslim, and I can tell you that what you are saying is absolute BULL. Muslim communities have integrated with almost everything in western societies, while still maintaining their Islamic principles (maybe cuz they are waiting for jihad right). Just like any other society, there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. You only see the bad and the ugly. simply cuz you’re bad and ugly. But you do not represent your people; there are plenty of well educated, well mannered western non-Muslims who respect every human for what he is, not what he believes (at least I have the intellectual honesty to admit that). People like you are dangerous for the world, and that is why I say you are the true terrorists. Whether you are a Muslim who thinks extremely, or a non-Muslim who thinks like yourself, you’re both the same.

    5) “there is NO central authority to interpret islamic dogma”

    You are right. That IS a problem. A problem that must be addressed educationally. The way you’re dealing with it is this: “there is no central authority, so anyone can do what he wants, oh my, its a mess, LETS JUST SAY ITS ALL BAD”. No, Einstein, education is the answer, open discussions, and sincerity. Not idiocy.
    And wait – how does that nullify my argument? I don’t get what you’re talking out of here; if there is no central authority, does that mean it is not open for scholarly interpretation? Does that not mean that the basic guidelines and sources are there? Dude, ahh nothing.. :/

    6) “threaten us and we will send you to your 72 tired camels in hell. You morons bleat that you value only death – then perhaps we should start sending you to the other side – YOUR CHOICE.”

    Disgusting. I feel like I’m talking to someone from the middle ages, and responding to you would only make me the same.

    Comment repeated.

  22. Kaw, I’ll respond to you first, cuz apparently you turned you to be an even bigger idiot than sheik (and that tells A LOT).

    1) Yes, some Muslims do use guns and bombs to ‘win arguments’, but if you’d educate yourself and read a little on the history of your ‘enlightened’ people, you’ll see that everyone has done the same. No, worse. What happened throughout the crusades, what happened during the world wars, and what is still happening today in the name of democracy (Killing millions of innocent people whom u call terrorists. Yes, millions. I dare you to object), doesn’t have much to do with Islam. At the same time, Muslims never wiped out a race of people (red indians, for ex), and Muslims never killed over 80,000 innocent souls in one night (while still looking like ‘freedom fighters), no, your enlightened artistic and scientific culture has to take the blame for that, so please do not point fingers unless you know what you are talking about.

    2) It would be very naive of anybody not to notice that a lot of what is happening in the middle east, in terms of terrorism, is politically motivated. You’d be an IDIOT not to admit that (oh wait, you are.). Yes, there ARE extremists, but if you’d take the time to read, understand, and examine the mainstream Islamic worldview, you’d see that a) We are the first harmed by the extremists, and b) We are more against them than you are.
    But you dont want to do that, cuz we are all evil jihadists. Disgusting mindset.

  23. 3) “we will probably never nuke you arab scum, but that is what you richly deserve.” You claim that 300 million humans deserved to be burnt into fumes, and yet you call me the extremist? Again, disgusting.

    4) “This is well beyond you, but that is how we study stars – by deduction from careful observation. And this process, along with inspect of the quran, shows that muslims are not worth the time it takes to type a full stop.”

    Yea it’s well beyond me, cuz I’m an idiot who knows nothing about sociology or anything to do with the study of human societies, but I still talk about it cuz I’m not a Muslim, and that makes me smart. Learn: you understand people by interacting with them, not by observing them, cuz they are not stars, Einstein. I have lived in the west, I am a Canadian Muslim, and I can tell you that what you are saying is absolute BULL. Muslim communities have integrated with almost everything in western societies, while still maintaining their Islamic principles (maybe cuz they are waiting for jihad right). Just like any other society, there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. You only see the bad and the ugly. simply cuz you’re bad and ugly. But you do not represent your people; there are plenty of well educated, well mannered western non-Muslims who respect every human for what he is, not what he believes (at least I have the intellectual honesty to admit that). People like you are dangerous for the world, and that is why I say you are the true terrorists. Whether you are a Muslim who thinks extremely, or a non-Muslim who thinks like yourself, you’re both the same.

    5) “there is NO central authority to interpret islamic dogma”

    You are right. That IS a problem. A problem that must be addressed educationally. The way you’re dealing with it is this: “there is no central authority, so anyone can do what he wants, oh my, its a mess, LETS JUST SAY ITS ALL BAD”. No, Einstein, education is the answer, open discussions, and sincerity. Not idiocy.
    And wait – how does that nullify my argument? I don’t get what you’re talking out of here; if there is no central authority, does that mean it is not open for scholarly interpretation? Does that not mean that the basic guidelines and sources are there? Dude, ahh nothing.. :/

    6) “threaten us and we will send you to your 72 tired camels in hell. You morons bleat that you value only death – then perhaps we should start sending you to the other side – YOUR CHOICE.”

    Disgusting. I feel like I’m talking to someone from the middle ages, and responding to you would only make me the same.

  24. Kaw, I’ll respond to you first, cuz apparently you turned you to be an even bigger idiot than sheik (and that tells A LOT).

    1) Yes, some Muslims do use guns and bombs to ‘win arguments’, but if you’d educate yourself and read a little on the history of your ‘enlightened’ people, you’ll see that everyone has done the same. No, worse. What happened throughout the crusades, what happened during the world wars, and what is still happening today in the name of democracy (Killing millions of innocent people whom u call terrorists. Yes, millions. I dare you to object), doesn’t have much to do with Islam. At the same time, Muslims never wiped out a race of people (red indians, for ex), and Muslims never killed over 80,000 innocent souls in one night (while still looking like ‘freedom fighters), no, your enlightened artistic and scientific culture has to take the blame for that, so please do not point fingers unless you know what you are talking about.

  25. Kaw, I’ll respond to you first, cuz apparently you turned you to be an even bigger idiot than sheik (and that tells A LOT).

  26. 1) Yes, some Muslims do use guns and bombs to ‘win arguments’, but if you’d educate yourself and read a little on the history of your ‘enlightened’ people, you’ll see that everyone has done the same. No, worse. What happened throughout the crusades, what happened during the world wars, and what is still happening today in the name of democracy (Killing millions of innocent people whom u call terrorists. Yes, millions. I dare you to object), doesn’t have much to do with Islam. At the same time, Muslims never wiped out a race of people (red indians, for ex), and Muslims never killed over 80,000 innocent souls in one night (while still looking like ‘freedom fighters), no, your enlightened artistic and scientific culture has to take the blame for that, so please do not point fingers unless you know what you are talking about.

  27. Lol, once you examine my comments and realize they are not too damaging for your cause here, please do approve them.

  28. Now you took the verse out of context Abdul. That verse about not killing the non oppressor is followed by the verses which abrogates it. I think you are trying to fool anyone here and your attempt is really lousy.

  29. reddog333: What do you know about the concept of abrogation in Islam? What do you know about the different jurisprudential opinions of such matters? Do you know what the general consensus is regarding abrogation? Do you know anything regarding this particular verse and what it has to do (if anything) with any sort of abrogation? It is not my attempt that is lousy, it is your understanding that is blurred.

    Ps: I still do not see my long, detailed response to Kaw.

  30. Kaw, I’ll respond to you first, cuz apparently you turned you to be an even bigger idiot than sheik (and that tells A LOT).

    1) Yes, some Muslims do use guns and bombs to ‘win arguments’, but if you’d educate yourself and read a little on the history of your ‘enlightened’ people, you’ll see that everyone has done the same. No, worse. What happened throughout the crusades, what happened during the world wars, and what is still happening today in the name of democracy (Killing millions of innocent people whom u call terrorists. Yes, millions. I dare you to object), doesn’t have much to do with Islam. At the same time, Muslims never wiped out a race of people (red indians, for ex), and Muslims never killed over 80,000 innocent souls in one night (while still looking like ‘freedom fighters), no, your enlightened artistic and scientific culture has to take the blame for that, so please do not point fingers unless you know what you are talking about.

    2) It would be very naive of anybody not to notice that a lot of what is happening in the middle east, in terms of terrorism, is politically motivated. You’d be an IDIOT not to admit that (oh wait, you are.). Yes, there ARE extremists, but if you’d take the time to read, understand, and examine the mainstream Islamic worldview, you’d see that a) We are the first harmed by the extremists, and b) We are more against them than you are.
    But you dont want to do that, cuz we are all evil jihadists. Disgusting mindset.

    3) “we will probably never nuke you arab scum, but that is what you richly deserve.” You claim that 300 million humans deserved to be burnt into fumes, and yet you call me the extremist? Again, disgusting.

    4) “This is well beyond you, but that is how we study stars – by deduction from careful observation. And this process, along with inspect of the quran, shows that muslims are not worth the time it takes to type a full stop.”

    Yea it’s well beyond me, cuz I’m an idiot who knows nothing about sociology or anything to do with the study of human societies, but I still talk about it cuz I’m not a Muslim, and that makes me smart. Learn: you understand people by interacting with them, not by observing them, cuz they are not stars, Einstein. I have lived in the west, I am a Canadian Muslim, and I can tell you that what you are saying is absolute BULL. Muslim communities have integrated with almost everything in western societies, while still maintaining their Islamic principles (maybe cuz they are waiting for jihad right). Just like any other society, there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. You only see the bad and the ugly. simply cuz you’re bad and ugly. But you do not represent your people; there are plenty of well educated, well mannered western non-Muslims who respect every human for what he is, not what he believes (at least I have the intellectual honesty to admit that). People like you are dangerous for the world, and that is why I say you are the true terrorists. Whether you are a Muslim who thinks extremely, or a non-Muslim who thinks like yourself, you’re both the same.

    5) “there is NO central authority to interpret islamic dogma”

    You are right. That IS a problem. A problem that must be addressed educationally. The way you’re dealing with it is this: “there is no central authority, so anyone can do what he wants, oh my, its a mess, LETS JUST SAY ITS ALL BAD”. No, Einstein, education is the answer, open discussions, and sincerity. Not idiocy.
    And wait – how does that nullify my argument? I don’t get what you’re talking out of here; if there is no central authority, does that mean it is not open for scholarly interpretation? Does that not mean that the basic guidelines and sources are there? Dude, ahh nothing.. :/

    6) “threaten us and we will send you to your 72 tired camels in hell. You morons bleat that you value only death – then perhaps we should start sending you to the other side – YOUR CHOICE.”

    Disgusting. I feel like I’m talking to someone from the middle ages, and responding to you would only make me the same.

    (100th attempt)

  31. sheikyermami: I won’t go through the trouble of responding to you until I see my comments on the post. You’re a wise guy, you know a lot, you shouldnt be afraid of my comments.

  32. Finally the comments are visible 🙂

    I apologize for the repeated comments, I kept trying and trying. Now if you’ll allow me, I’m gonna sleep and get back to your comment later at night.

    Take care.

  33. Abdul if you have a problem… go wash your ass you ignorant asshole. You accuse Americans of creating HIV. Drop dead Abdul!

  34. If you have a problem with my understanding then we can resolve this offline… your mentally ill. You think you’re smarter than everyone else and you’re not you have the mind and intellect of a five year old. You are a moron and an embarrassment to me and the entire world.

  35. reddog333: But how would I reach you if we’re offline 🙁

    This is a problem. Lets discuss this.

  36. Well how I am wrong. The second verse says exactly what it says… do you have anything to back up that the Quran says not to kill anybody??? I am right.

  37. Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity. It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah). (Quran 60:8-9)

    How’s that for backup?

    1. So?

      So muselmaniacs are not forbidden to deal justly and kindly with those who submit?

      WTF?

      Tell me Abdul: why the hell would we allow a primitive cult of supremacist lunatics to deal with us in any way?

      I believe that we should deal with you lot in any way we see fit.

      And then in the same breath you are telling us that Islam is benign and not every soldier of allah is waiting for the cue from the mosque to start cutting throats?

      You really have something lacking, Abdul!

  38. Abdulrahman
    “Why does it say that these verses and signs are for ‘people who think deeply’ or ‘people who ponder’?

    I have pondered on this verse, the one that says the sun sets in a muddy pool and have come to the conclusion that the Koran is a product of the fevered imagination of pedophile Mo. If Allah is truly God surely he would know better than to claim in verse 18:87 “Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring….”

  39. Abdulrahman,
    You are really quite the idiot. Lets us go throught your “argumments”

    >1) Yes, some Muslims do use guns and bombs to ‘win arguments’, but >if you’d educate yourself and read a little on the history of your >‘enlightened’ people, you’ll see that everyone has done the same.

    I never said that others did not and “everyone” is a major and false claim by you. With the exception of Buddhism all monothesitc faiths are guilty of the crime, however all other faiths with the exception of islam contain the machinery for self-learning and evolution. Islam does not and therefore it respresent a major threat to workd security and peace – and the tripe you have written here merely supports this contention.

    > No, worse. What happened throughout the crusades, what happened >during the world wars, and what is still happening today in the name >of democracy (Killing millions of innocent people whom u call t>errorists. Yes, millions. I dare you to object), doesn’t have much to >do with Islam.

    The crusades can be split into the papal and Spansish crusades – the most violent was the Spanish crusades prosecuted on behalf of the Spanish Royal house. Politics was behind the violence as it is in most of the muslim world today. The papal crusades was also political, using religion to achieve political gain as you muslim scum have been doing for over 1000 years – but that was not as bloody as the Spanish crusades or the numbers that have been murdered by muslims over the last 100 years (and pray we dont start counting from the time your child molesting profit crawled out of its egg – because then the numbers seem very high indeed) . Actually, the Crusades started as a reponse to muslim aggression – so again you muslims are directly responsible. I will state that muslims have killed more than the fight for democracy ever has. Why, because the point is correct and because you understand little about which you have “written”. Millions??!!! Pull out the list you are using as a reference so that we can show you where you are wrong. No one here has a problem with challenging you intellectually – you cannot even wipe your backside (your admission!!!’).

    >At the same time, Muslims never wiped out a race of people (red >indians, for ex), and Muslims never killed over 80,000 innocent >souls in one night (while still looking like ‘freedom fighters),

    You really are an ignorant and ill-educated fool. The majority of fatalities in native populations that were introduced to Europe ie North American Indians (what exactly are the Red indians??? ) was caused by disease. And no race was wiped out by the European Americans. The Spanish did annhiliate the Taino, and the Europeans did annihilate the Tasmanian aboriginal people – these crimes are fully documented and the guilty parties have acknowledged their guilt however the countless african murdered and enslaved by muslim scum have not yet recieved an apology. Neither have the decendant of the European and Asian peoples whose ancestors were murdered by muslim thugs. The Europeans have acknowledged that they have done badly by many peoples and have made reparations. You muslim scum have been raping the world (or trying to) as we still havent seen a hint of an apology apart from rather annoying repetition of the dishonest statement “isalm is a religion of peace”!! No it is not. As for the 80,000 (in one morning actaully – about 9.00am you stupid turd) , read the history of WW2 and the reconquest of the Pacific from the Japanese and then estimate how many civilians ans soldiers would have died if a conventional campaign had been undertaken. Actually this calculation is beyond your intellect and you are too stupid to understand that more peoples lives were probably saved by utilising the atomic weapons and that, with high probability, is the reasoning that drove the decision makers. Sometimes you cannot save all and you have to let some go so that most can be saved – but we try and save as many as we can unlike you muslim scum who simply murder because a childmolester and rapist of ca. 600 AD told you to do so in his meaningless and dead words.

    > no, your enlightened artistic and scientific culture has to take the >blame for that, so please do not point fingers unless you know what >you are talking about.

    Absolute rubbish, you ignorant moron and cretin. A decision was made to save of the order of 1,000,000 lives (both allied and Japanese) by people who had to make a decision to kill 200,000+ in order to do this. It is not a perfect solution, and it was a war so it was an optimal solution. You do not have the moral strength or integrity to make such a decision and live with it – so do not comment on it, you stupid piece of canine excrement. Rather difficult – do I kill 10 to save 100!!! And the decisions were made by the politicans of the day, using reason and logic. Technology was not to blame, and only morons like you who understand little would make the claim. We save the lives of MANY through what we have learned to apply through our improving understanding of the world around us. That what we develop is sometimes misused is a human trait – but we have safeguards that do not exist in the muslim world. You muslim scum simply wish to conquer – you cannot learn – you cannot do anything useful so you can only destroy what is better than you so that you can live with yourself. We are free to explore and learn – YOU ARE NOT; – YOU ARE BOUND TO THE WORDS OF A STUPID RAPIST AND THUG AND THAT IS ALL THAT YOU ARE.

    Reddog
    We are learning a lot from the answers of this muslim idiot, and it is all rather disconcerting. There seems to be little possibility that muslms can leave in peace with others and consider them as equals not as inferior. We also have a muslim turd spouting the words of the quran – however there is no valid single interpretation of the quran – so the interest is really only in the answers that this muslim creep give because these point to the mental state of a typical islamist.

    My conclusions: abdulrahmen is not vey intelligent, and is capable of great violence for little reason. The best cure would be to terminate the islamic turd, but we are not yet allowed to do this even if it presents a significant risk to our communities.

  40. Gerlad: Even though I hate these discussions of science and the Quran, I’ll go on with this one just for the heck of it. If that is the way you understood the verse, then you’re just pushing it. Not an objective method of understanding religious scriptures at all! Many linguistic aspects, to do with Arabic, must be taken into consideration. What would you understand from me if I told you, “I went to the far far west and saw the sun setting into the ocean, it was beautiful!”. Surely, I would not mean that the sun is sinking into the ocean. Just so you don’t accuse me of twisting the meaning to suit my argument, I’d like you to look up some of the earliest and most reliable commentaries on the Quran regarding this verse (Ibn Katheer would be an example). I think it would be obvious that Ibn Katheer didn’t know that there would be a major debate on with verse nearly 1000 years after his lifetime, and I’m sure he understood more about the meaning of the verse than you and I. Either way, what is definite is that this verse says nothing clear-cut or straight forward regarding the setting of the sun, and it surely has nothing to do with science, so you got nothing going on there.

    On another note, when I said that the Quran urges us to think and ponder, I did not mean that whoever ponders would agree with the logic; I meant that thinking, pondering, and understanding are part of this scripture. Whether you agree with the scripture’s logic or not is another story.

  41. Gerlad: Even though I hate these discussions of science and the Quran, I’ll go on with this one just for the heck of it. If that is the way you understood the verse, then you’re just pushing it. Not an objective method of understanding religious scriptures at all! Many linguistic aspects, to do with Arabic, must be taken into consideration. What would you understand from me if I told you, “I went to the far far west and saw the sun setting into the ocean, it was beautiful!”. Surely, I would not mean that the sun is sinking into the ocean. Just so you don’t accuse me of twisting the meaning to suit my argument, I’d like you to look up some of the earliest and most reliable commentaries on the Quran regarding this verse (Ibn Katheer would be an example). I think it would be obvious that Ibn Katheer didn’t know that there would be a major debate on with verse nearly 1000 years after his lifetime, and I’m sure he understood more about the meaning of the verse than you and I. Either way, what is definite is that this verse says nothing clear-cut or straight forward regarding the setting of the sun, and it surely has nothing to do with science, so you got nothing going on there.

    On another note, when I said that the Quran urges us to think and ponder, I did not mean that whoever ponders would agree with the logic; I meant that thinking, pondering, and understanding are part of this scripture. Whether you agree with the scripture’s logic or not is another story.

    (Second Attempt)

    1. Muslims Defending the Stupidity of Islam: The “Out of Context” & the “Do-You-Speak-Arabic” Garbage

      Ibn Warraq on How to Debate a Muslim, Part I

      Ibn Warraq on How to Debate a Muslim, Part II

      The Status of Non-Muslims Under Muslim Rule

      Only Muslims are considered to be ‘human beings’ and are all others considered to be’demons’, ‘the vilest of creatures’, ‘cattle’, ‘sons of apes and swine’, etc etc….

      One has to remember that only Muslims are entitled to human rights, and the rights of non-Muslims are those rights that are permissible or “tolerated” within the dictates and confines of their law (the Qur’an, Sunnah, etc.). The Pact of Umar is also considered the precedent establishing the treatment of dhimmis in the dar al-Islam:

      Cheers!

  42. Well apparently all my comments need to be reviewed by the admin now. You’ll see my response once they’re done with it, Gerald.

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