Australia: No Camden Madrassa, For Now…

No Quranic Society School for Camden

Gates of Vienna/ by Baron Bodissey

I wrote last year about the proposed Islamic school for the town of Camden in New South Wales. Local residents who protested the plans for the school were subjected to the usual stigmata of “racism”, “Islamophobia”, etc.

H/T Darrin
1a66068a-0bf9-4fc3-aac8-d757c302d5b3_mw800_mh6001                             Desecrating the flag…  

The latest news from Down Under is that the school’s opponents have prevailed in court:

Camden Islamic School Plans Turned Down by NSW Land and Environment Court

THE proposed Islamic school near Camden has been rejected by the NSW Land and Environment Court.

The Quranic Society launched an appeal over the application after Camden Council turned down the plans in May last year.

Commissioner Graham Brown upheld Camden Council’s decision to turn down the Quranic Society’s application this morning.

But the grounds for the rejection of the school are worrisome.

It would have created a useful precedent if the school’s application had been denied on the basis of its being a threat to traditional Australian values and liberties, since it represents a subversive totalitarian political ideology. Instead, the school was turned down on technical grounds:
Read further…

44 thoughts on “Australia: No Camden Madrassa, For Now…”

  1. I’m just a bit confused about how the girls are desecrating the flag. Can anyone please explain to me how this comment is not racist or Islamophopic? Why is it ok for people on Australia Day to drape themselves in the flag and thereby express their love for Australia but not dark-skinned muslims? How does it degrade the flag to have it touch a muslim? I eagerly await your explanation.

  2. I was speaking to a Camden local a few days ago. He told me that when the Quranic Society originally purchased the land, they told residents they were going to run goats on it. The next thing they new, a DA for a school had been submitted. Camden was very lucky with this result, it could very easily have gone the other way. Like the Bass Hill Islamic school that was approved, I believe this to be a political decision. Camden residents really dug their heels in and me thinks the political Establishment didn’t want to see any strong protest movements developing during Australia’s recession.

  3. To a Christian,

    I am a follower of Christ, please accept this response in the manner in which it is intended. The muslim faith is anti Christ, there is absolutely no doubt about this. Anti both in current meaning as ‘against’, and Greek ‘anti’ as ‘in place of’.

    Islam is not a race, therefore racism should never be charged against those who oppose it. It is a satanic belief system intent on wiping out the Jewish state of Israel, and the over-running of the world. While these girls in the photo may believe they are doing the right thing, it is their belief system that isn’t. Once sharia is in place, these girls wouldn’t even be allowed out on the streets, let alone be allowed to wear the nations original flag.

    They personally are not actually ‘desecrating’ the flag, but the association of the Australian flag alongside the muslim faith is an utter contradiction.

    They may be lovely girls, many muslim people are socially wonderfull. But this is in spite of islam, not because of it. I hope you would agree that Christians are generally ok people because of Christ, not in spite of him.

    If you read the koran, you would find it’s tenets are completely at odds with the free western world, and I think this is what the writer of the pictures subtitle means.


  4. Maybe “A Christian” might not be as well informed about Islam as he /she could be. In that case he/she would be in good company as most Australians are ignorant about its true nature.

    For starters “A Christian” could check out the website of the Centre for the Study of Political Islam.

    That will provide much food for thought.

    ugfht to

  5. Islam is intrinsically against nationalism and commands the slaves of Allah to wipe out all national boundaries and national, man-made laws, so that the entire world is ruled by one government, the Caliphate, and one law, Sharia. Therefore, these slaves of Allah wrapping themselves in a NATIONAL flag to burnish their skin-deep loyalty to the NATION of Australia is as perverse and absurd as Zionist Jews wrapping themselves in the Nazi flag. It is a hypocritical PR stunt staged to lower the guard of ignorant disbelievers and attack their cultural defences. Furthermore, the female hair is a sexual object in Islam and women with uncovered hair are regarded as whores. So, these girl slaves of Allah are effectively wrapping the NATIONAL flag of Australia around their private parts. If that’s the way to show loyalty, then the Saudis should issue a fatwa ordering male slaves of Allah to demonstrate their loyalty to the Ummah by wearing the black flag of Islam as a loincloth.

  6. I can interpret their actions in exactly the way that Abu Abdullah has or it may have been a harmless show of loyalty for Oz, If insult was intended then the flag and our country has been insulted. However, only the girls in question know their motivation. In any case, the principles behind wearing the hijab are against those on which Australia was built. Here the flag is being used for hijab – this suggests that Abu Abdullah may be correct in his assertion.

  7. Thankyou for your answers. To put this in context, I have spent quite a lot of time studying the Koran, talking with muslims, educating other Christians on the teachings of the Koran and campaigning against the violence perpetrated in many cases by muslim people. I am not unaware of the details and I understand the logical extension of Muhammed’s ideas to be the spread of Islam throughout the world. The Islamic world view can be compared that of Joshua entering the Promised Land – obliterate anyone who will not accept God.

    Although I am aware of these things, I am also well aware that many muslims in Australia do love our country and would wear a flag with pride. They don’t do so out of a sinister conspiracy, but because Islam is simply the culture they have grown up in and they personally have no desire to rule the world. In the context of the Koran, this is the road to Medina. If Islamic leadership should choose to do so, these people can then be called upon to fight for Allah, but as it stands they personally have no desire to do so and don’t even give it a moment’s thought. I agree that there is a threat, but we need to be discerning and not associate the threat with the people. The threat is the idea itself.

    As a Christian, I understand that any idea that opposes the teachings of Jesus is anti-christ. This does apply to Islam, but it also applies to any other teaching that opposes Jesus teachings. Jesus said that to follow him meant to pick up a cross – a cross symbolising the sin, the suffering and the shame of the world. To follow Christ means that everything that’s wrong with the world is now worn by you. Jesus demonstrated it – when he saw need he was “moved by compassion”. The word compassion means to feel the other’s pain as if it was your own. Jesus’ compassion extended across all boundaries; even as he hung on the cross he was moved by compassion for the people that were there gloating over his death and begged for God to forgive them.

    To follow Christ is to do that. We can no longer look at people in need and just give them what we think is fair then move on; we have to spend ourselves (Isaiah 58:10) – use ourselves up, go without things we need so that they can have them. To follow Jesus is to deny yourself (Luke 9:23) for others, to “lay down your life” to see another’s life fulfilled (1John 3:16). This is not just for the people that ‘deserve’ it, it’s specifically for the people that we think don’t because “love covers over a multitude of sins” (1 Peter 4:8) and because Jesus’ taught us to love our enemies.

    I agree that Islam is anti-Christ. But it is no more anti-Christ than any other teaching that opposes what Jesus taught. Any teaching that we do not have to love muslims, to honour them as people, to spend ourselves on their behalf, to lay down our lives for them, to feed them, clothe them, visit them in prison etc (Matt 21:35-46) is antiChrist.

    Nowhere in the New Testament is it taught to beware of other religions. Jesus took his disciples to the great rock of Caesarea Philippi where pagans from around the known world came to worship the demon god Pan through sacrifices and sex acts with goats,and he said “on this rock I will build my Church” (Matt 16:13-18). Jesus was not afraid of other religions. But repeatedly we are warned to beware of false teachers within the church because it is ideas that are antiChrist but presented as Christianity that stop us from being the salt of the earth – the stuff that stops the world from going rotten. There has been far too much teaching that says we don’t have to love some people like the muslims. It is completely anti Christ, but it is not unexpected “the love of most will grow cold” (Matt 24:12).

    For those of you who aren’t Christians, this may not seem like a great way to defend our country. It might not be, but it never was intended for that purpose. The Jews hoped for Jesus to deliver them from the Romans, but that was never his purpose because his alliegiance was to the Kingdom of Heaven. The alliegiance of someone that follows Jesus is first of all to heaven, then to his country.

    I believe that whether these girls are wearing the flag because they choose to or because of a marketing plot, to refer to the act of them wearing the flag as desecration is a very bad thing. As much as I love Australia, we are part of a western economy that worships greed and through trade and other means cause enormous suffering around the world. It would do us well to have a little humility.

  8. Christian ,
    The people carry out the threats therefore the people are the threat.
    Jesus told us to denounce Satan…….hand amputation , beheadings , public floggings , epidemics of gang rape , genital mutilation , honour killings , slavery sexual and otherwise…all of these things are evil and indefensible.
    I cannot understand supposedly , educated westeners who support these things. Support for muslims is support for these things.

  9. Thresaj, you’ll see from my post that I’ve been denouncing those things for some time. What the Bible does say is “do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good” (Romans 12:21). Those girls did nothing to have their photo sent around the world with a comment suggesting that the flag was defiled because they wore it.

  10. Christian ,
    Wearing a flag in this way is not normal behaviour. It is inherently disrespectful. I would be furious if it was my countries flag.
    Why are you defending these young women?
    Have you ever lived in an islamic country? I very much doubt it.
    The Bible says many , many contradictory things.

  11. A Christian,
    I also do not believe that a flag, which represents the people of a nation, should be treated in that manner.

  12. Theresaj, on Australia Day people paint our flag on their faces, wrap it around their shoulders, wear boxer shorts with the flag on; any way of displaying the flag because they like it as it represents our country. They do it because they believe they are patriots. Have a look at the photo of the Cronulla riot. You can see just left of centre a man with a flag tied around his shoulders like a Superman cape as at least 8 men beat up a single person who ‘looked’ muslim. A lot of Australians wouldn’t even display a flag the next Australia day because they were so ashamed by people like these. It was described as a rallying point for rednecks and hate crimes. Put this picture up as our flag being desecrated.

    This blog list all of the cruel things some muslims do to their girls. If it was anything more than a hate site it would not try to make life harder for them.

  13. A Christian
    This is not a hate site – please get that into your head. This is a place where people can openly express what they think about the followers of mohammed. The comments are NOT racist – islam is NOT a race. Yes – the blog lists some of the cruel things that muslims do – please explain how comment of this nature make life harder for these people. If, as a muslim, you feel that adverse comment to your behavior is racist then that, in my opinion, is a cop-out, and an abrogation of your responsibilty. Muslim adults should be treated as such and not as delinquent children – this means they must accept the responsibility of their actions.

  14. Christian ,
    Your sympathies are very , very misplaced.
    This is not a hate site.
    There is no such thing as a hate crime…
    Muslims have killed millions of people…
    What Australians choose to do with their flag is one thing; what arrogant invaders choose to do is quite another.
    Your naivete is frightening.

  15. It appears that no one can give me a rational answer here. My objection is not about the bad things you list, it’s because the bad things are true. If you gave a damn about the girls who are victims of those bad things you would not refer to them as arrogant invaders and you would not make out that something touching them is defiled. Theresaj, with your statement that “there is no such thing as a hate crime”, you proudly take your stand with all of the Nazis, KKK and terrorists that think the same way against all reason and common decency. Do you take that position also kaw? You say that this is not a hate site but theresaj thinks there’s nothing wrong with hate – are you going to set him straight?

    Theresaj, my country is about people standing up for the underdogs and the downtrodden. Our ANZAC soldiers on Gallipoli climbed out from the trenches and took a day caring for the muslims they were fighting. Hate crimes are killing it, not muslims.

    Kaw, you said that love and compassion are what makes us human. Demonstrate some love and compassion toward these girls and be human.

  16. I never said there was nothing wrong with hate….
    Any crime could be considered a hate crime…..but I am old enough to recognize and despise Orwellian speak.
    My grandfather was a Gallipoli survivor. The mustard gas destroyed his health but not his intelligence. We are all called to think for ourselves.
    I don’t give a toss about the young women in the photo. They are shockers…..going to a foreign country to insult people. Cheap hussies , nothing more , nothing less.
    Christian ,
    I am still waiting to hear which islamic country you lived in??

  17. And your grandfather would have given you a clip around the ear for calling a group of school girls that you’ve never even met cheap hussies. Bad muslims call girls whores, you call them hussies. Bad muslims kill people, people on this blog say that muslims should be killed. It’s like watching hitler and Stalin telling each other they’re evil.

    When you can explain why I have to have lived in an islamic country to tell you that a whole lot of people picking on some little girls is a bad thing, then I’ll tell you.

    You can be better theresaj, why do you settle for this rubbish?

  18. Hi all,

    Firstly, let me say I am a friend of “A Christian”. And let me also say that I am saddened to see the hatred and bitterness displayed by some people here. I am a resident of Camden, and the pastor of the closest church to the proposed Muslim School. And I will tell you that I had no issue at all with having a Muslim school up the road.

    I am pleased to see that “A Christian” has friends. As the pastor and resident of Camden you would be aware of Archbishop Pell who doesn’t share your views on the rapid Islamization of Australia. You may not have “an issue at all with having a Muslim school up the road,”- but the Muslims have an issue with your existence. Perhaps you should take a closer look at the plight of Christians of Pakistan or the remaining (Coptic) Christians of Egypt, because that is what will happen to you if you keep aiding an abetting your mortal enemies. Our “hatred and bitterness” is nothing compared with the hateful, murderous doctrine of Islam inflicted by Muslims on their children and on us, the ‘filthy kuffars”.

    In fact, as a result of the amount of bitterness and vitriol I heard from some people, including so-called Christians, over this issue, I made the decision to try to befriend as many Muslims as I could.

    Very good of you trying to ‘befriend as many Muslims as you could”- however, Muslims are religiously obliged not to take unbelievers for friends or protectors, so your “outreach” is a waste of time

    Qur’an (5:51) – “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.”

    Qur’an (5:80) – “You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.” Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

    Qur’an (3:28) – “Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah…”

    There’s more. Want more?

    I do not agree with Islam, and I don’t for a moment believe that both Islam and Christianity can be true. They are diametrically opposed, and I say this as someone who has read the Quran from cover to cover, and is currently re-reading it before I go on a Mission Trip to Indonesia later this year. So I have a little ‘cred’ in regard to the teachings of Islam. (Noting, though, that many Muslims do not believe the English translations of the Quran are fully accurate…).

    If you do “not agree with Islam” and you know that Christianity is “diametrically opposed”, why do you attack this website and not the ‘Religion of Peace?’ Are you not attacking the messenger? How twisted are you, really? Are you as twisted as the Stalinist blockheads from the German state TV?

    My main points are this:

    1. Just because we do not agree in terms of our beliefs, why does this mean we have to hate each other?

    THEY HATE US. Period. Its not our choice. That’s their religion. What is it you don’t understand about killing unbelievers until the world is Islamic?

    2. Why do we subscribe to the fact that hatred can overcome hatred? Even if Muslims did hate us all, the only way to overcome hate is through love. (Well, according to this guy named Jesus, anyway…)

    < em>Next time you are being attacked by a rabid dog try to throw a bible at him. For you it might work. In the real world, it doesn’t.

    3. If we, as followers of Christ, are called to love all people including Muslims, how can we fulfill the commission our Lord gave us when we are fighting their very existence in our society.

    I suggest you take it up with the oppressed Christians who remain in Islamic countries. People who support this website don’t wish to live under Islam. We don’t believe dhimmitude is the future of this country. We would suggest you read Brigitte Gabriel, Bat Yeo’r or Andrew Bostom.

    4. Why have we fallen for the lie of the so-called “Christian West”. Our society is already headed to hell, and it is not Islam that is sending it there. Is this battle really about keeping Muslims out of a society that is already very sick and in need of Christ? Or should we just be about the work of our Lord in sharing his love with everyone, whether our society is secular-humanist, muslim, or whatever…?

    For the Muslims we are “crusader-zionists”, whether you like it or not. Your issue with our society is another one. If you feel our society is “sick and in need of Christ” then perhaps you should work harder to spread your religion instead of blaming the society that enables you to practice your religion peacefully and unhindered. You will not be able to do so under an Islamic system. I shall also remind you that we have freedom from religion, whether you like it or not. Its part of the freedom our forefathers fought and died for.

    5. Where were all these voices “protecting the faith” over the past generation, as Satan has invaded our society with all kinds of filth, perversion and sin? We have all come out of the wood-work now that the “threat” of Islam has arrived, but what of these other things that we so often fail to speak up about?

    Again: stop blaming your own society and try to change it for the better. You won’t achieve that by accommodating, aiding and abetting our mortal (Islamic) enemies.

    Anyway, just a few thoughts. I would love to know what you all think.


    …if you say that this isn’t a racist site then you decieve yourselves. It is at least religiously discriminatory. Freedom of speech should be respected, but you would obviously do more than just “talk” against Islam.

    (for the so-called Christians)You also decieve yourself if you think you are doing Christ a service by keeping a Muslim school out of Camden. How many times must you read in the Scriptures until you understand; our fight is not a physical one? What part of Matthew 5 did you skip over? As Christians, our battle is not physical, racial, religious, or even political. It is spiritual…

    …the fact that you oppose evil does “not” make you good!

    1. “Islam is not a race, Islam is an ideology”- these are the words of the chairman of the Council of American-Islamic Relations, Ibrahim Hooper. Take it up with him.

      Islam discriminates against non-Muslims, so why are you telling us we have somehow (how exactly?) no right to point that out?

      “As Christians, our battle is not physical, racial, religious, or even political. It is spiritual…”

      The Islamic battle is all of the above, but not spiritual.

      “…the fact that you oppose evil does “not” make you good!”

      You are an idiot. So those who are fighting crime are criminals? You need to see a shrink, urgently!

  20. sheikyermami,(wow…funny)

    So…the muslims hate you. They want to kill you. That is obvious! I’m not arguing against that. You could not possibly understand my point because you obviously have not read, nor do you believe in the scripture that I referenced. We, as people who call ourselves Christians,(not you) are called to love those who hate us.

    “Islam discriminates against non-Muslims, so why are you telling us we have somehow (how exactly?) no right to point that out?”

    …you have “every” right to point out that Islam discriminates against non-Muslims. I didn’t say you don’t, but discrimnation based on the fact that someone adheres to a religion is as un-Australian as discrimination based on the fact that someone does “not” adhere to a religion. Both groups are extremist, and need to be stopped.

    (physical, racial, religious, political)

    “The Islamic battle is all of the above, but not spiritual.”

    Again: you could not possibly understand because you are not spiritually minded. No point arguing really.

    “You are an idiot. So those who are fighting crime are criminals? You need to see a shrink, urgently!”

    That is a complete misinterpretation of what was said!! A quite obvious one if you have any logical sense. You should read it again…slowly, and think about it. Are you aware of the corruption inside the police force? Are we to turn a blind eye to these parasitic men because they put the “bad people” in jail? Again, “…the fact that you oppose evil does ‘not’ make you good!” I did not say that the fact that you do not appose evil makes you righteous, nor did I say that the fact that you oppose evil makes you evil. I will say now that the fact that you can insult me does not make you right.

  21. Indeed, ‘another Christian:’ very funny:

    so in your queer and twisted world-view our police force is ‘parasitic and corrupt’ and therefore beyond redemption, while the “tiny minority of extremists” among the 1.5 billion Muslims need you to save them from evil-doers like us?

    And because our country is “going to hell” we need you to accelerate the process by assisting Muslims in their religious obligation to make this country, (or rather the world) Islamic?

    You are a traitor to your country and to our ancestors who fought valiantly to keep us safe from Islamization and the commies.

    You need more than a shrink!

  22. Sheikyermami,

    Wow, you are one bitter, twisted person, aren’t you…!

    I must say I find it ironic to see the very hatred, bitterness and filth that you accuse the Muslims of spewing forth from your very own mouth.

    I don’t for a moment think that my views will change your mind, because you seem too hard-hearted and unteachable to even consider another viewpoint. My comments are aimed more for reasonable people who might also read this thread, that they would be willing to see that your own brand of hatred is not the only way to respond to those who may at times hate us too.

    Just how do you suppose hatred will defeat hatred?

    Is that not a self-defeating argument…???

    And what of the hatred that you will breed in those whom you hate?

    Where does this cycle end?

    And one last thought for you to ponder:

    If you are confident in your views, why the need to bring personal insults and vitriol to your replies? By all means you are entitled to your views, and I praise God that our nation allows even bigoted, hate filled speeches like yours the freedom and voice to speak.

    Oh, and if you ever actually take the time to read the entire Quran, instead of just “proof-texting” the verses that suit your pre-held views, you might actually become enlightened enough to realise that not all Muslims are the same, nor do they all believe the same things. Granted, the Quran gives much weight to the extrimist viewpoint, but it also preaches much love and peace in other parts. So let’s present fair and unbiased debate, and not hatred and half-truths…!

    Have a great day,

    The Rev

    1. Dear Rev:

      Rejecting, discussing, defending against Islam doesn’t make me “bitter”- it is the mission of this blog to inform people about how vile and evil Islam is. Islam is a criminal cult and works like a drug on those who are obsessed and indoctrinated with it.

      Opposing Islamic advances is a matter of pride. It is a matter of self-preservation. It is spitting in the face of cowardice, falsehood and political correctness.

      It is clear from your writing that you are a Muslim pretending to be a Christian, accusing us of “hatred”, which is a rather common Muslim tactic called projection. Your mendacity has no currency here.

      Your false accusations of bigotry and vitriol is the essence of Islam and Islamic scriptures, this website merely points it out. We quote Islamic sources, we don’t make it up.

      In your last paragraph you are doing da’awa for Islam, a rather strange thing to do for a Christian, don’t you think?

      I don’t give a hoot whether “all Muslims are the same” or whether they “all believe the same things”- the Koran, your dirty book, is the guidebook for terrorism, conquest of infidel lands, the subjugation of the kuffar with a genocidal mandate to wipe out unbelief, for all time, until “Allah’s religion reigns supreme”. It is your Islamic duty to destroy the infidel nation state, as it is my sacred duty to protect my country from the soldiers of Allah.

      All Muslims, like all dogs, share certain characteristics, none of the Islamic doctrine benefits the secular nation state, which we are duty bound to defend.

      You are most welcome to debate the “love and peace in the Koran” on this blog, and I’m looking forward to your pointing out “hatred and half-truths” so we can correct it.

      We welcome Muslim scholars like yourself, Mr Rev!

      Surely we’ll have a great debate, Mr fake Christian Rev.

      May Allah help your children to leave Islam!

  23. Shiekyermami,
    for someone that believes in free speech you put a lot of work into silencing the people that disagree with you. You’ve even moved beyond straight insults and accusations into directly editing people’s posts!

    When someone who doesn’t have a valid argument opposes someone who does, they often resort to ‘game playing’. Rational discussion takes place at an adult level, but a game player assumes the role of an aggressor or a victim. For instance, when you accused Another Christian of calling the entire Police Force parasitic and corrupt, you were aware that he was referring to individuals that the force itself works to get rid of. By choosing to twist his words in this way (and the many other instances), you pressure him to take the role of victim and defend himself against your attack. In that way you derail the discussion and divert readers from the valid point.

    So just to bring things back on track, no one has said that you can’t point out the cruelty in the Koran, just that it is hypocritical to do so in a cruel manner. Don’t keep answering that by pointing out more muslim cruelty, it avoids the point and shifts responsibility from your own actions and those you are defending. It is hypocritical to accuse muslims of treating women badly, then call a group of schoolgirls “hussies”.

    I’d be interested to see how you propose to eliminate the 1.5 billion muslims on the earth. You might like to elaborate, then we can discuss whether your means are cruel or not. Would you be open to discussion on that?

    1. A (fake) Christian:

      Where am I silencing anyone? Your posts are still there, and so are the others. What’s the point of your false accusations other than to smear and discredit this website?

      Your second paragraph above is an absurd attempt to accuse me of Muslim derailment tactics.

      Your third paragraph “no one has said that that you can’t point out the cruelty in the Koran, just that it is hypocritical to do so in a cruel manner. Don’t keep answering that by pointing out more muslim cruelty” is (another) crude attempt in silencing me.

      The “hussie” is from another poster on this blog, you are welcome to take it up with him.

      I have never called for the elimination of the 1.5 gazillion Muslims on the earth. Comments re violence usually come from Muslims like yourself and are removed as soon as they appear.

      Obviously we are working towards the elimination of Islam itself, (the ideology in the guise of religion) which keeps your 1.5 billion Muslims in shackles and in fear of hellfire and eternal punishment. When Muslims leave Islam, they will leave not in their thousands, but in the millions.

      That can be achieved by shining a light on it. Without a drop of blood.

  24. Sheikyamami, I must say I admire your tenacity. Rarely have I ever seen someone so determined to believe deception that they remain steadfast in the face of truth, reason and logic!

    I notice you have conveniently ignored my first question though. How do you propose to defeat hatred with hatred?

    And a couple more that I would love to hear your views on:

    1. How can you have a ‘sacred duty’ to defend secularism? (Taken from your reply to my last post).

    2. Are you suggesting that Muslims leave their “religion of hate” (your view, not necessarily mine), and join your own religion of hate? Because I see the same traits in your opinions that you accuse Muslims of having.

    3. What evidence can you bring to the debate to prove that there is no hell and/or eternal damnation?

    4. If you truly believe in ‘freedom’, as you claim to, how can you not believe in freedom for Muslims to practice Islam? If you have a sacred duty to fight for the freedom we have in this nation, your duty include fighting for Muslims to have the freedom to follow Islam. Otherwise, my friend, you are a hypocrite!

    I eagerly await your views on these matters.

    Oh, and “A Christian”, great to see you back mate. It has been a while. nd “Another Christian”, you are a good man too. I will catch up with you both soon. (Maybe at our next visit to Lakemba Mosque…..LOL)

    The Rev

    1. The Rev:

      “truth, reason and logic” is not found in Islam. Not buying any.

      As we have an absolute right to love, so do we have an inalienable right to hate those who want to take that away from us. Our ancestors fought to keep our society free of Islam. They didn’t do that by throwing bibles at the Muselmanic hordes…

      1. How can you have a ’sacred duty’ to defend secularism?

      Answer: I defend what I value dearly with my life and property. Do you have a problem with that?

      2. Your question is absurd. We don’t have an obligation to love our mortal enemies. The rest is an equally absurd attempt to equate cannibalism with hunting quail.

      3. Not my problem. I don’t sell afterlife and I ain’t buying any.

      4. Freedom for Muslims includes killing unbelievers, apostates, genital mutilation, polygamy, child-marriage etc. and includes a mandate to wipe out Jews. You don’t have that “freedom”- not in my country. You are my mortal enemy. You can call me what you like, but remember: I didn’t invite you here.


  25. sheikyermami,

    “It is clear from your writing that you are a Muslim pretending to be a Christian, accusing us of “hatred”, which is a rather common Muslim tactic called projection.” -to The Rev

    “Comments re violence usually come from Muslims like yourself and are removed as soon as they appear.” -to A Christian

    Wow…so now The Rev “and” A Christian are Muslims, ay? I may as well convert! I tell you the truth, none of us three are Muslims. What any easy argument to win if we were! How about, the next time a person disagrees with you, you accuse them of being a muslim too, that way you’ll be in the right straight away because Muslims are always in the wrong.(apparently) Your flawed logic cannot be hidden by intellectualisation.

    I must check my sarcasm and praise A Christian and The Rev for not intentionally insulting you as you have done to them.

    “All Muslims, like all dogs, share certain characteristics, NONE OF THE ISLAMIC DOCTRINE BENEFITS THE SECULAR NATION STATE, which we are duty bound to defend.”(emphasis added) -Completely FALSE statement in that I am sure that at least one if not many points of Islamic doctrine are beneficial to the secular nation state. My point is not to defend Islam, but to show to others that your arguments are full of absolutes and blunt generelisations. You’ve done a rather good job of making yourself out–to the objective reader–to be a pretty hatefull person who has an indoctrinated veiw of Muslims, and an absolutely closed mind on the issue.(I did not state this as fact, so don’t you dare twist my words)

    ,Another Christian

    1. Another (fake) Christian sez:

      “Completely FALSE statement in that I am sure that at least one if not many points of Islamic doctrine are beneficial to the secular nation state..”

      Name those “benefits” so we can discuss them. The rest of your “hateful person-indoctrinated view-closed mind” diatribe is not worth responding to.

      I have no obligation to accommodate those who are religiously obliged to destroy our society and civilization.

    2. Another Christian,

      “All Muslims, like all dogs, share certain characteristics, NONE OF THE ISLAMIC DOCTRINE BENEFITS THE SECULAR NATION STATE, which we are duty bound to defend.”(emphasis added) -Completely FALSE statement in that I am sure that at least one if not many points of Islamic doctrine are beneficial to the secular nation state.

      Care to explain what’s ‘FALSE’ about this statement and which one -if not many- points of Islamic doctrine are beneficial to our secular nation state?”

  26. Sheik,

    You didn’t have to invite me to my counrty – Australia. Because I was born here. And I was probably here before you were born too – or certainly my ancestors were, considering they came out on the First Fleet. So I agree – you didn’t invite me here; I was already here.

    Likewise, you have no right to ask me to leave my place.

    But thanks for the offer – I might just decline though for now.

    I didn’t think you could come up with reasonable answers to my reasonable questions. I would really be interested in what any other ‘reasonable’ viewpoints are here on this site.

    Maybe I was mistaken – I was led to believe that this was a site where reasonable discussion and debate could take place. But so far, I have only seen hatred and vitriol, rather than any rational debate.

    I might check out a few other posts, and hope that this is a “one-off”, and not consistent with the site as a whole. I welcome the chance to genuinely discuss opinions and even differences in view, but don’t really want to waste this amazing life God has blessed me with to merely get involved in ‘tit-for-tat’ abuse and garbage.

    The Rev

  27. Dear Rev,

    “hatred and vitriol” – is that your standard calling card?

    You seem to be so addicted to this imprecation that you use it in every post.

    Feel free to do your da’awa while it is (still) legal.

  28. I think I’ll move on like The Rev. I encourage you to do what you said Sheikyermami – shine a light on Islam. Be brighter than they are – use reason, stand for love, compassion & justice. While ever you do things like comparing muslims to dogs you identify yourself as their enemy. Look back over your comments and ask honestly what there is there to make a muslim want to leave Islam when one of your posts says “In a rationally ruthless society, such a Muslim — supposedly now ex-Muslim — would not be trusted. ” You need something to offer. Do you offer safety for women who have been abused? Do you defend their honour against those who question it on your own blog? Do you offer forgiveness and justice for those who have done wrong? Do you empower the underpriveleged who know nothing outside of Islam? Do you offer respect for the people even if you don’t respect their beliefs? Do you offer hope for something better? You need something more than a lot of impotent ranting.

    1. A Christian:

      I took pains to go over your blog posts and I have collected the gems here:

      ” Bad muslims call girls whores, you call them hussies. Bad muslims kill people, people on this blog say that muslims should be killed”

      Its the good muslims who call girls whores, and it is the good muslims who kill people. When people on this blog say muslims should be killed they will be booted off, instantly. But we don’t believe reading miranda rights to Islamic terrorists, keeping them in luxury jails fed with halal burgers, a koran and ‘spiritual guidance’ in matters of jihad by Islamic clerics. We say kill those who set out to kill us.

      “Good governance is one of those slippery terms used by obscenely rich western nations to avoid their social responsibility.”

      What an absurd, idiotic statement! A statement that gives you away as a man obsessed with guilt and a savior complex that can only be described as laughable. If you want to se “obscene wealth” go to Saudi Arabia or to the Emirates. Ask them to ‘spread the wealth around” and accommodate their muslim brothers and sisters! Isn’t it curious that you self-appointed saviors of the world have nothing better to do than engage in self-flagellation, psychotic guilt trips which, if implemented, would make us all poor and turn our nations into the worst 3rd world dictatorships? Since when has wealth been created by ‘spreading it around?’ If you feel so rich, why don’t you make a donation and help the next Australian near you? (Ah no, that doesn’t count. You want extortionist taxes on those you perceive to be ‘rich’- you are the last one to put your money where your mouth is.

      “…free trade agreements where the US floods developing nations with subsidised rice or cotton and destroys their local industry, Australian ‘Aid’ that ensures Iraq has become a major importer of Australian wheat and a mass of starving people who are angrier than ever and crying out for some revolution or philosophy that will protect them from these thieving westerners.”

      I don’t know where to begin. This is such seriously flawed rubbish, it makes me feel like drowning you in a pool of milk and honey. You don’t even begin to understand what this is all about.

      “As bad as collonialism was, most developing countries are reeling… ”

      BS. Colonialism gave India one language that unites them, it got rid of the practice of sutee’, it built a network or roads and a rail-system that criss-crossed the country. In most Islamic countries in North-Africa, (all of which I lived in and travelled) you will find that the infrastructure, if it hasn’t been destroyed, is what’s left of the brief period of colonialization. ‘Zimbabwe’, the former Rhodesia, was the bread-basket of Africa before Mugabe made it African again. Go ahead and blame us for Pakistan too, which is built on Islam and nothing but Islam and the biggest recipient of aid. Garbage in, garbage out. What do you think is to blame for their failed Islamic state? Do you think it helps Australia to import Muslim Pakistani’s so they can establish the same here?

      “Theresaj, my country is about people standing up for the underdogs and the downtrodden.”

      Okay then, help the west Papuans, help the Christian Copts in Egypt and the Christians who are being butchered in Indonesia, just like I help my fellow Jews who are now fleeing from Yemen, and from many other places. But why would you help Muslims to destroy your own country which allows you to practice your religion freely and to live in peace and safety?

      ” check out the Jubilee and Drop the Debt movements to find out more. Money is still the mover and shaker of the world. (you certainly got that right. Pol Pot tried without money. Remember how that went?)

      Don’t believe for a moment that 1st world nations finance the survival of developing nations. The figures show that through the way they co-opt the markets of muslim African nations and others, western nations take back roughly 14 times as much in trade as they give in aid.”

      The dumbest statement of all of them. Perhaps you should keep your nose out of commie propaganda, or try to run a small business for once, instead of bludging on the dole. This is so far removed from reality I can’t even laugh about it.

      ” It wasn’t random chance that made the World Trade Centre buildings the focus of anger.”

      No, it wasn’t. Its called “jihad” and it is the obligation of every muslim to strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers, going back to the days of Muhammad, 1400 years ago, to destroy infidel nations.

      Get a life, mate! Do you hate yourself so much that you look at yourself in disgust for having a full belly?

      Fake compassion is also a mental disorder.

      Have a nice day and stay safe!

  29. For the life of me I can’t find an answer to my challenge in there; you’ve once again responded to a rational query with personal attacks. I think you’ve got your point across – you really don’t give a damn; you just want an audience.

  30. Absolutely “A Christian”.
    I was interested to note in one of the “good Sheik”s comments above that he is helping his “fellow Jews”. Gee whiz! One would think that if the Sheik was a Jew, from the race of people who have been subject to the greatest villification of all nations in history, that he would be different to those he hates!

    Well Sheik, with the attitudes and garbage that flows freely from your mouth (well, your fingers when you type anyway), you might just have to try to understand the terrorists you hate so much, because you might just find yourself spending many eons with them after this life…!

    I wish i could say it has been enlightening, but your rants simply make me feel revulsion and sadness. You really are one sad person Sheik.

    Maybe you could spend some time checking out some of the amazing teachings of your fellow Jew, Jesus Christ, and try to change the world using his methods rather than trying to hate the terrorists to death or something.

    Have a great night. I have a sermon to finish preparing. I might just have to preach on the dangers of hatred and intolerance or something. God forbid there might be others just like you out there…

    The Rev

    1. “God forbid there might be others just like you out there…”

      Watch out, we’re coming to get you.

      “I have a sermon to finish preparing.”

      Must be the next Friday kuthba, then?

  31. Hey Sheikya,

    SNIPPED for being a pest

    You wouldn’t know the meaning of “reason and logic” if it came to bite you in the dick..!

  32. I think he cut my post instead.
    I notice he removed any trace of my accusation that he deleted your earlier post Christian. Ironic, hey.

    And he rants against “Islamic” atrocities against freedom and free-speech. I guess true “freedom” to our mate the Sheik actually means he is in control of who says what and what is ‘allowed” to remain in the public forum.

    Hey Sheik, are you sure your surname is not Ahmadinejad? You two seem to have so much in common…!

    Anyway, thanks so much for allowing my buddy Christian back into your autocratic dictatorship here.

  33. Ah, he snipped mine too Rev. He first accused me of lying about his censorship, then when I asked him why he had blocked 2 of my posts he deleted that one too.

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