While we’re at it: Make sure the hijab goes too
Once-exotic forms of Muslim women’s head and body garments have now become both familiar in the West and the source of fractious political and legal disputes.
The hijab (a hair-covering) is ever-more popular in Detroit but has been banned from French public schools, discouraged by the International Football Association Board, and excluded from a court in the U.S. state of Georgia.
The jilbab (a garment that leaves only the face and hands exposed) was, in a case partly argued by Tony Blair’s wife, first allowed, then forbidden in an English school.
Sultaana Freeman wanted her Florida drivers license to show her in a niqab, but an Orlando court said no.
*
The jilbab (a garment that leaves only the face and hands exposed) was, in a case partly argued by Tony Blair’s wife, first allowed, then forbidden in an English school.
The niqab (a total covering except for the eyes) became a hot topic when Jack Straw, a British Labour politician, wrote that he “felt uncomfortable” talking to women wearing it.
Which resulted in death-threats and the most absurd accusations as we can see above
If Quebec election authorities disallow the niqab from voting booths and a judge disallowed it from a Florida driver’s license, it is permitted in British courts and a Dutch candidate for municipal office wore one. A British hospital even invented a niqab patients’ gown.
The burqa (a total head and body covering) has been barred from classrooms in the UK, is illegal in public places in five Belgian towns, and the Dutch legislature has attempted to ban it altogether. Italy’s “Charter of Values, Citizenship and Immigration” calls face coverings not acceptable. A courtroom in the United States has expelled a burqa’ed woman.
In brief, no general rules govern Islamic headwear in the West.
Some observers would ban hijabs from public places, but what legal grounds exist for doing so? Following my rule of thumb that Muslims enjoy the same rights and obligations as other citizens, but not special rights or obligations, a woman’s freedom of expression grants her the option to wear a hijab.
* But usually its not their ‘freedom of expression’-, its a certain type of man who whack the females into this ‘freedom..’
In contrast, burqas and niqabs should be banned in all public spaces because they present a security risk. Anyone might lurk under those shrouds – female or male, Muslim or non-Muslim, decent citizen, fugitive, or criminal – with who knows what evil purposes.
These coverings are a vulgar display of self promotion. I was taught to refrain from outward displays of piety. I can see why mr. Straw feels uncomfortable.
>>”Sultaana Freeman wanted her Florida drivers license to show her in a niqab, but an Orlando court said no.
Good for Orlando! These oppressive coverings are a security risk. God made women beautiful, I don’t want them looking like Darth Vader. Where’s the outdry from feminists?
They call that women’s liberation?
Has Germaine Greer taught them this? She certainly hasn’t said a word about it.
She’s too busy picking on dead people who can’t defend themselves like Steve Irwin and Diana, Princess of Wales.
And no doubt she values her life!
How gutless of her to say nothing!
The enslavement of women in Islam.
Muslim women have to bear the responsibility of “honour†in Muslim society, a deadly serious matter, but get no power that goes with such awesome responsibility. It is unfair that a Muslim woman has no power to decide her fate. It is unjust that Muslim women have to bear the pains and penalties of FGM. Women are also regarded as chattels in the world of Islam – in effect slaves.
The most galling aspect of the burqa in the West, is the public manifestation of our acceptance of institutionalised slavery. It is an acknowledgement, that we as a Western society, have recognised the institutionalised slavery of women in Islam, as legitimate in the West. This is what the slippery slope of “diversity” and miasma of “multiculturalism” has led our whoe societies to.
I just cannot believe it, or as the smart Vizzini in ‘The Princess Bride’ says, “Inconceivable! Never mind, we’ve almost reached the Cliffs of Insanity”.
Gramfan>>”Has Germaine Greer taught them this? She certainly hasn’t said a word about it.
Mark 3:24-26″How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.”
Joe Grey
Hope that is true.
Also I do believe that this “outfit” is a manifestation of the front line of terror in western society. I know a lot of people who loathe/fear women who walk around like this.
Burga should be banned, it is a sign of devil inside whoever wears bruga. Burga is for Mullahs who secretly enjoy having sex with women who wear burga. On the other hand, burgar should be allowed in the dessert. Ban ban ban burga and expell all who want to wear burga. If they wear burga, they should be left with bikini with burga.
IMO a total ban on religious headgarb in all schools and government offices and public transportation would have an instantaneous effect of moderating islam in the West.
Women in niqab shouldn’t be driving anyway as their vision is limited, therefore it’s ridiculous to even think of a niqab-ed female photograph being allowed on a licence.
Even more, no female should be allowed to be photographed in niqab or burqha for security purposes as it totally negates the purpose of the photograph.
In Saudi, where I lived on a female compound, within a military compound.
In each block of flats there were mandatory female Saudis,to ensure the Westerners didn’t smuggle men in, but it was the Saudi women who did so using……you’ve guessed it…. a niqab to disguise their paramours.
Mob of sick puppies.
What about Jewish women? Orthodox women cover their hair – with hats or scarves or – even – wigs. Of course, though, they can dress very fashionably as long as the sleeves are at least covering their elbows and the skirt is long (covering the knee). This varies from community to community. And, of course, most Jewish women don’t cover their hair.
It would be a good thing to ban all the religious getups in public. People can wear what they want in private.
Hopefully the Almighty could care less what anyone wears on their head.
MODERATIONIST>>”It would be a good thing to ban all the religious getups in public. “
At least the ones that are a security risck, and/or safety risk, as Marylin Lebez pointed out. But at the very least they shouldn’t be constructing foot baths with public funds. THAT is sheer madness!
Marylin Lebez>>”In each block of flats there were mandatory female Saudis, to ensure the Westerners didn’t smuggle men in, but it was the Saudi women who did so using……you’ve guessed it…. a niqab to disguise their paramours.”
I also understand that Muslim countries are usually at the top in googling pornoghraphy. I’ve heard stories before like the one you mentioned. Doesn’t surprise me. These traditions of dress are too much outwardness, as is everyone fasting together during Ramadan, praying together during exact prescribed times, or saying the robotic,” peace be upon him” every time the name of Muhammad is mentioned. This religion doesn’t deal enough with the inwardness of man, like Jesus asking us to pray in private, conceal your fasting, and telling us that if you even think of a sin you’re guilty of it.
A little off the subject, but the Voice of Martyrs has free dvds in which Christians give accounts of the brutality and murders they face in Islamic countries. Ask for the Gift of Fellowship share kit. Be warned that the pictures are graphic. http://www.persecution.com/
Chaya Says:
“August 5th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
What about Jewish women?”
While it is true some very orthodox Jewish women wear wigs, head scarves, longer skirts and sleeves NONE of them cover their faces in this fashion.
They also don’t hide weapons under any garb, or go around trying to kill people.
It is quite obvious that there are a few similarities between Judaism and islam and I think this is due to the fact that old Mo took bits from this religion, Christianity and paganism to make islam more palatable for future converts.
I hope this was just a superficial comparison on your part.
GranFan>>”Also I do believe that this “outfit†is a manifestation of the front line of terror in western society.:
Gramfan, can you expound some on this. I’d like to know your particular point of view. Thanx in advance!
Joel Grey
In effect the muslim dress ie the burqa/niqab, is an in your face declaration that “we Muslims are here to stay, and there is sod all you can do about it”. They are advertising Islam, and daring us to say anything negative, upon which they will accuse us of “Islamophobia”.
DP111>>” In effect the muslim dress ie the burqa/niqab, is an in your face declaration that “we Muslims are here to stay, and there is sod all you can do about itâ€. They are advertising Islam, and daring us to say anything negative, upon which they will accuse us of “Islamophobiaâ€.
Right on.
Every cultural norm that they trample creates 100 ethnocentrics
Joe Grey,
DP111 has added to this topic well.
Some of my other thoughts, in no particular order:
I have heard people say nuns wore similar things, as indeed they did back in the fifties and later.
Then Chaya tells us about orthodox Jewish women.
(But still their faces are visible!)
I say this is another attempt at moral equivalence. Jews do it, Christians do it, so Muslims can do it too. I don’t see it that way.
I think one has to look at the motives. All three groups I mentioned have a religious connection for wearing their head-attire,yes.
However we have seen terrorists using niqabs to escape the authorities in the UK and Pakistan and who knows where else. If Bin Laden wasn’t so tall I am sure he would have done it – maybe he has?
I am sure muslim women wear it to appear divisive and put themselves “out there”. As I said I know people who find it intimidating. I am not even certain the koran demands it.
Also Jewish women and nuns didn’t/don’t go around saying “it is liberating” as far as I know. And I don’t think they are possible suicide bombers either, like a few “Palestinian” women who have attempted to use their outfits for this purpose, and sadly succeeded.
Maybe a long time ago it was ok. We are living in a post 9/11 world and we all endure security checks etc when traveling or going to large events.
Why should muslim women be exempt when their co-religionists have in fact made this security our way of life?
Why should they get ID photos when you and I aren’t even allowed to wear a hat or sunglasses in a passport photo?
I am sure some of them who are not living in muslim ghettoes may indeed suffer discrimination, but that is their choice of head gear.
Perhaps if their menfolk were braver they would put themselves “out there” instead?
Is it even possible they wear these clothes to attract discrimination and then complain? I think it is possible, not definite, but possible.
The absurdity of it all is the quran does NOT prescribe such covering…
Gramfan>>”Maybe a long time ago it was ok. We are living in a post 9/11 world and we all endure security checks etc when traveling or going to large events.
Why should muslim women be exempt when their co-religionists have in fact made this security our way of life?”
Excellent points. We live in a different dynamic after 9/11, we should conduct ourselves accordingly. Anyone who demands otherwise is
a facilitator at best. Thanx for your response!
EloivsDiablo>>”The absurdity of it all is the quran does NOT prescribe such covering…
If not in letter, perhaps in spirit?
Gramfan – Than you.
EloiVsDiablo Says: The absurdity of it all is the quran does NOT prescribe such covering…
The irony is, that the koran itself is absurd.
A devout nun will wear her habit regardless, even if there is danger in doing so. More so, if there is real danger.
This is in contrast to Muslim women, who will take off the burqa, for instance after 9/11 or 7/7. If as it turns out, there was no real danger of them being assaulted or worse, they will start to wear it, just to show that they have no fear – but only after the danger has passed, or did not exist in the first place.
One must also bear in mind that the influence of the mullah or the men in the family is definitive whether a Muslim woman wears the burqa or not. The Imam/mullah decides whether it is politically expedient for women to wear it, or not – and then claim islamophobia.
We are dealing hear with a sect, that has been waging war on the civilised society on all fronts. They have done so successfuly for a 1000 years. I think though, that this time they will be defeated. The reason is that Western society is akin to an acid. It corrodes ideologies and brings them down – no matter if they are native or foreign. In the first few decades, a foreign culture/ideology is given respect, simply because it is foreign, and one does not want to hurt the feelings of the outsider. But sooner or later the natural impulse of the West is to criticise, and that criticism will be corrosive. This will bring about the global death of Islam. For the good of Islam and Muslims reverence for it, it is best they leave the West before that final reckoning.
DP111>>” But sooner or later the natural impulse of the West is to criticise, and that criticism will be corrosive. This will bring about the global death of Islam. For the good of Islam and Muslims reverence for it, it is best they leave the West before that final reckoning.
Very good point. We have the best minds in the world, yet we’ve only just begun to scratch the surface regarding criticism of Islam. I’ve noticed more criticism from sources that wouldn’t have done so in the past, like atheists, a few articles in the msm, and some radio shows. Perhaps that is why they are so eager to prevent criticism???
DP111, here’s a quote from Nonie Darwish regarding your point:
“Muslims for the first time in their history are confronted with worldwide criticism and feel they must provide substantial answers, or at least do damage control. Muslims finally are questioning certain aspects of sharia laws in Cairo and other Arab capitals. The West must continue the pressure in the realm of ideas, exposing the dangerous ideology of Jihad, intolerance and Islamic oppression of human rights.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTg1M2E0Y2E5ZjY2NmNlZDdlZjk5YTgxZGU1YTU5OTU=
Well, I guess I am going to disagree with everyone here – I like it when my enemy wears things that I can spot right off and now where they are and what they are doing.
I guess I wanted to see your reaction to the fact that Orthodox Jewish women also cover their hair and wear long sleeves and skirts. It isn’t the fact of hair covering or modest dress that is the problem (Amish women also dress the same way) but the person’s attitudes towards the mainstream culture. Religious Jews have always tried to keep a low profile mainly because of anti-Semitism. On the other hand, Muslims are trying to impose their way of life on the mainstream culture! That is the difference!
DP111 and Chaya,
just saw your posts. Thanks for that.
Bottom line: we are not dealing with philosophies that are equivalent.
Islam is “somewhat” different to other creeds.
There needs to be a burka/kebab wearing day or someone like nike to develop a trendu burka so we can all wear it at airports at work etc. just say youve converted to islam and the country would end up in chaos. How long before the first burka wearing armed robbers attack a bank!