Two FGM Updates from MEMRITV. “Egyptian Villagers Explain Why They Circumcise Their Daughters”:
First of all let me make this clear: this is not about circumcision, which, in itself is totally unnecessary and an insult against G-d and the female body. This is about Female Genital Mutilation, Â and why it spreads through Islam.
Following are excerpts from a television program about female circumcision in Egypt, which aired on Al-Mihwar TV on May 10, 2007:
Interviewer: In the Islamic religion, and in the villages and neighborhoods, it is always said that girls should be circumcised just like boys. Does it come from the Sunna, or is it a custom or yours?
Female villager: Circumcision is part of the Sunna of the Prophet. We used to bring a daya, and she would circumcise the children, but when the role of the daya was abolished, we stopped. Now we take our children to the doctor, and he circumcises them.
Interviewer: So it is the doctor who circumcises the girl?
Female villager: Yes. If a girl is not circumcised, she can’t stand it. When she is circumcised, she is calm and has self-restraint. The circumcision protects the girl and makes her calm.
[…]
Interviewer: So you think all women should be circumcised to protect their honor.
Female villager: The Prophet said that the men go and wage Jihad for a year. He said that girls should be circumcised so they can bear it for a whole year until the men return. […]
And “Al-Azhar Cleric Farahat Sa’id Al-Munji Justifies Female Circumcision: It Replaces the Chastity Belts of Ancient Times”:
Following are excerpts from an interview with Al-Azhar Cleric Farahat Said Al-Munji, which aired on Al-Mihwar TV on May 10, 2007:
Farahat Sa’id Al-Munji: The Prophet said that circumcision is obligatory for men, and is noble for women. This means that for the sake of her honor, a woman can be circumcised. This noble act can be either carried out or not. Moreover, this noble act is subject to restrictions nowadays. I once had a discussion with a gynecologist, who said: “A man brought his daughter to me, and I told him she must be circumcised immediately.” Why? Because he discovered that her clitoris was so big that it was bound to cause her pain or bother her when she reached puberty, and therefore, she had to be circumcised. He told me that other girls came to him, and he said they should not be circumcised. Why? Because their clitoris was normal in size, and did not bother them. It would be crazy to deal with such a clitoris, which does not protrude to an extent that might bother the woman, when it rubs against her clothing and so on…
Guys, all these things appear in Islamic law. Don’t think we are making these things up. It all exists [in religious law] and is determined… We say that if the clitoris is so on and so forth… What am I saying? When the Prophet Muhammad met Umm Salama in Al-Madina – what did he say to her? “Are you still doing what you used to do in Mecca?” In other words, are you still circumcising girls, like you used to do in Mecca? She said: Yes. He said: “Trim it, but don’t cut it off.” According to another version, he said: “Shorten it, but don’t cut it off.” “Trim it” means leaving room for sexual desire. That little bit on top, which looks like the rooster’s crest, is shortened, but just the upper part. She needs to cut off the prepuce, the little bit at the top.
“All Religions” means “Muslims Only”
My profession is a gynecologist and during my work I examine women of nearly all religions and nationalities. For few years I worked in Makkah as well as in Kuwait where you could sample women of all religions and I found that only Egyptians, Sudanese, and Ethiopians have this habit of circumcision.
*Â Makkah is ‘Muslims Only’- how this nutbag can claim that she could ‘sample women of all religions’ is a mystery.
*****
Update: Warning Graphic Images!
17 January 2009
Clit-Cutting Tradition in Indonesia:
Warning: Graphic Images!
Female circumcisers and their attendants waiting in an elementary-school classroom, where they do their work
* More Pic’s here
*
By SARA CORBETT/NYT
A Cutting Tradition
* Looks like the NYT has removed the article. Here’s another link…
When a girl is taken — usually by her mother — to a free circumcision event held each spring in Bandung, Indonesia, she is handed over to a small group of women who, swiftly and yet with apparent affection, cut off a small piece of her genitals. Sponsored by the Assalaam Foundation, an Islamic educational and social-services organization, circumcisions take place in a prayer center or an emptied-out elementary-school classroom where desks are pushed together and covered with sheets and a pillow to serve as makeshift beds. The procedure takes several minutes. There is little blood involved. Afterward, the girl’s genital area is swabbed with the antiseptic Betadine. She is then helped back into her underwear and returned to a waiting area, where she’s given a small, celebratory gift — some fruit or a donated piece of clothing — and offered a cup of milk for refreshment. She has now joined a quiet majority in Indonesia, where, according to a 2003 study by the Population Council, an international research group, 96 percent of families surveyed reported that their daughters had undergone some form of circumcision by the time they reached 14.
Tears are wiped from the face of a 9-month-old following her circumcision.
*
These photos were taken in April 2006, at the foundation’s annual mass circumcision, which is free and open to the public held during the lunar month marking the birth of the prophet Muhammad. The Assalaam Foundation runs several schools and a mosque in Bandung, Indonesia’s third-largest city and the capital of West Java. The photographer Stephanie Sinclair was taken to the circumcision event by a reproductive-health observer from Jakarta and allowed to spend several hours there. Over the course of that Sunday morning, more than 200 girls were circumcised, many of them appearing to be under the age of 5. Meanwhile, in a nearby building, more than 100 boys underwent a traditional circumcision as well.
According to Lukman Hakim, the foundation’s chairman of social services, there are three “benefits” to circumcising girls.
“One, it will stabilize her libido,” he said through an interpreter. “Two, it will make a woman look more beautiful in the eyes of her husband. And three, it will balance her psychology.”
Female genital cutting — commonly identified among international human rights groups as female genital mutilation — has been outlawed in 15 African countries. Many industrialized countries also have similar laws. Both France and the U.S. have prosecuted immigrant residents for performing female circumcisions.
In Indonesia, home to the world’s largest Muslim population, a debate over whether to ban female circumcision is in its early stages. The Ministry of Health has issued a decree forbidding medical personnel to practice it, but the decree which has yet to be backed by legislation does not affect traditional circumcisers and birth attendants, who are thought to do most female circumcisions. Many agree that a full ban is unlikely without strong support from the country’s religious leaders. According to the Population Council study, many Indonesians view circumcision for boys and girls as a religious duty.
* But of course: none of this has anything to do with Islam, right?
Update:
Warning: What follows now is very graphic:
| Clitoridectomy; Wikipedia; The Age and Islam |  |
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Warning:Â Very graphic and disturbing content!
Surprise, surprise the Age (9/7/08) does its usual article concentrating on ‘female circumcision’, particularly the most horrific variety with the ‘gosh isn’t it shocking but it’s nothing to do with Islam’…. The reality that Islamic text/laws make clitoridectomy mandatory or regard it as sunnah (supported by Mohammad) or at least a worthy practise is completely ignored. Also ignored are the many hadiths (which dictate day-to-day life) that support the practise.
 No-one claimed Islam invented clitoridectomy – the Arabs practiced it at the time of Mohammad ..but to deny that it was taken up by Islam, is promoted by Islamic religious leaders, is mostly practised by Muslims and has spread around the world with Islam just shows the power of Islam in stopping people (including UN groups) from telling the obvious truth – in the case of Islam, there IS a religious base to the practice!!!  Note: May 2008 the Egyptian parliament seemed to have dropped laws making female genital mutilation illlegal in Egypt (other laws re increasing marriageable age and reporting families who beat their children were also over-ruled) (reference), though more recent reports claim clitoridectomy has been criminalised with trivial maximum sentences of up to 2 years jail and $1000 fine –AND it’s allowed in cases of ‘medical necessity!!! Conservatives maintain that Islam condones the removal of a girl’s clitoris to tame her sexual desires and condemn the amendment as a western import. (reference) In a recent study in Yemen, of the 39 clerics who participated, 72 percent wanted the practice to continue for reasons of religious mandate, virginity and tradition. (Report on Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) or Female Genital Cutting (FGC)
 >The sad truth is: FGM is performedall around the world wherever Muslim communities are present
Islamic Law
Yes! The Arabic version of the law states:
Sadly – Wikipedia fails to report the comment by Sheikh ‘
 Abd al-Wakil Durubi in the English ‘version’ who notes:
Note: ‘sunna’ means the actions and words of Mohammad, the perfect example for all Muslims to follow!Sheikh ‘Abd al-Wakil Durubi’s comments show that support for clitoridectomy is widespread across Islam, not limited to the followers of Shafi Law!Sadly – Wikipedia also allows Sheikh ‘Abd al-Wakil Durubi to try the ‘it really only means trimming the clitoral hood’  line. Of course, that’s why it says ‘removal of the clitoris’ and naturally those illiterate Arab/Muslim tribes-people past and present would have been right up with the fine detail of female anatomy.
Often the clitoris is cut from babies when the clitoris is enlarged due to pregnancy hormones and the ‘hood’ not visible (even the labia minora are just threads and are often cut too) or the clitoris is destroyed by applying hot sand and chemicals to it or it is grabbed and stretched out and sometimes a band applied and rolled back along the clitoral shaft to fully expose it for cutting —- hood, yeah, right!!  They’ve all just been ‘mistaken’ for 1400 years!! (until some westerner put them right??).
Wikipedia also notes:
There has been ongoing endorsement of ‘circumcision’ but note the swift switching of terms – it’s not female genital mutilation, it’s just harmless female genital cutting FGC!!
Once again I will post this recent support for clitoridectomy (as in Egypt):
On 12/2/2007 Al-Arabiya TV aired ‘Al-Azhar University Scholars Argue over the Legitimacy of Female Circumcision Practiced in Egypt.
The debate was between Egyptian Al-Azhar University scholars Sheikh Muhammad Al-Mussayar and Sheikh Mahmoud Ashur. The exerts are interesting because they acknowledge the hadiths related to FGM -Muhammad Al-Mussayar notes:
Hadith: these apply to all (sunni) Muslims:
1) Wikipedia has the courage to note the hadith supporting the view that clitoridectomy is sunnah – Umm Atiyyah was a known clitoris cutter.
(Note:Â The powerful Mohammad did NOT stop the procedure yet he stopped adoption so he could marry his adopted son’s wife Zainab, regarded as incest by the Arabs because adopted sons were held as sons!)
Sadly – Wikipedia then allowed the usual excuse – it’s ‘weak in transmission.’ (Isn’t this an opinion?)  Funny then that it’s survived 1400 years, including revisions and influenced Islamic law!!  Both the ‘science’ of the hadith and this excuse are too absurd to waste time on!2) Wikipedia also notes a hadith from the highly authentic, reliable Muslim collection:
Dr Yusuf al-Qaradawi: Whoever finds it serving the interest of his daughters should do it, and I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world.
Sadly it implies this is the only one – WRONG and it allows Dr. Muhammad Salim al-Awwa, Secretary General of the World Union of the Muslim Ulemas, who agrees that the hadith is authentic, to state the most absurd, convoluted, twisted lack of reason to claim that silly Aisha, when she said TWO circumcised organs (in the feminine form) she really meant one – the male one of course… (see logical alternative explanation below) Both Wikipedia and Dr al-Awwa might like to try these which show that the circumcised parts were often referred to separately ie ‘when the circumcised part touches the circumcised part’  and that both Aisha and Malik tracing several different transmitters, refer to two separate circumcised parts and that the instruction re circumcised parts and ghusl is reported in several sets of hadith making it important! Remember, female circumcision meant cut out the clitoris in Mohammad’s time! a) Maliks Muwatta Section: Obligation to Do Ghusl when the Two Circumcised Parts Meet
b) Hajj
Above hadiths from this SITE suggest that ‘circumcision’ of females was normal for Muslims: c) Tirmidi hadith:
Logical alternative explanation:   Clitoridectomy was widely practised by Arabs at the time of Mohammad;  Aisha was an Arab;   Mohammad had endorsed the practice of clitoridectomy when speaking to Um Attiyyah (clitoris cutter) and Aisha simply spread Mohammad’s instructions;   hence it would be reasonable for Aisha (probably circumcised herself) to address people re ‘washing after dirty sex,’ to refer to the TWO circumcised organs coming into contact as this would be the normal case.   Malik likewise notes the same statements coming from Umar ibn al-Khattab and Uthman ibn Affan and A’isha. d) As for female circumcision (clitoridectomy in Mohammad’s day) being a sign of respect for women, and a hadith where the women of al-Ansar were addressed endorsing female circumcision, they are referred to in Dr al-Awwa’s paper ‘Female Circumcision Neither a sunna, nor a Sign of Respect’   – ( I own a copy but it’s nolonger available!).
Indonesia- Inside a Female-Circumcision Ceremony: A girl is soothed by an attendant before her circumcision being sexually -and mentally- crippled.
Also Hadith in the Musnad by Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, where Shaddad Ibn Aws reports that the prophet said:
These show that such hadith exist—call them ‘weak’ if you like!Shia View
Foster states that female circumcision is rumoured to be common amongst Shi’ite communities ruled by Hezbollah in Lebanon (Wikipedia)Judaism; Christianity: Wikipedia may note correctly that neither Judaism nor Christianity have text supporting clitoridectomy etc and notes that the only members of these two groups that carry it out are those from Africa ie from areas under considerable Arab/Islamic influence for 1400 years. Christian converts from Islam sometimes continue the practice. Old WHO reports showed much higher practice rates amongst Muslims in FGM areas than Christians but it’s now politically incorrect to note this. Sadly- Wikipedia refers to an extremist nut case who calls himself a Christian in regard to FGC but fails to report the array of Islamic clerics that endorse the practice, in full accordance with Islamic text/laws in the Islamic world and the west.  The false Christian-Muslim’ equivalence continues while hiding the full extent of Islamic involvement. ‘A cutting tradition’ where practices vary from pricking the clitoris, cutting/removing it or removing it plus labia with more destructive procedures increasing).
Note how the spread of FGM/clitoridectomy matches the spread of Islam – Africa (NOT in the south where Arab/Islam didn’t penetrate initially); Middle-East; Turkey; India; Malaysia; Indonesia…
 Female Genital Mutilation in Indonesia – Let’s blame it on the Black Africans!
Will we blame the Africans for all of it? – surely, given the thousands of years since the Pharaohs, it would have spread throughout Africa if we are to only blame the Pharaohs who were generally not black, and the black Africans!
Irfan Yusuf blames an old Indonesian practice! ( Does Yusuf mean liar in Arabic?) It’s practised in Australia- – will we call it an old Australian practice? Dito Europe, America?
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Australia’s Mufti supports clitoridectomy – do you think he’s ignorant of Islamic text and laws?
Pamela Bone (who also thought clitoridectomy wasn’t part of Islamic law!) referred to an interview with Sheik Fehmi al-Imam of the Preston Mosque where she asked him about clitoridectomy and he replied:
What’s the bet that the first person prosecuted for genital mutilation/clitoridectomy is an African Christian or Animist – in an effort to show it’s not Islamic!Including other forms of genital cutting helps to fudge the relationship between Islam and clitoridectomy. Remember, when overtaken, some cultures take-on the culture of their overlords particularly if there are already some similarities (eg some African tribes) while others resist certain practises (eg initially Christian Syria resisting clitoridectomy) so culture does have an influence but in the case of Islam so does religion (religious culture!!).  So, the fact that a restricted few others perform FGM/clitoridectomy/FGC (genitals have always been fascinating) and some Muslim groups don’t, does NOT mean there is not a close link between FGM/clitoridectomy and Islam.
Quiz:
If you answered Islam to all, give yourself a tick!! But remember, it’s nothing to do with Islam!! Some articles on FGM/clitoridectomy on the site: Female Genital Mutilation – 18/04/07
Female Genital Mutilation Part 2 – 07/06/07 Female Genital Mutilation Part 3 – 21/06/07 Does Yusuf mean liar in Arabic?  Wednesday, 19 March 2008
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The Arabic version of the law states:
“Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (bazr in Arabic)- (this is called HufaaD). ” (Reliance of the Traveller, a classical manual of Islamic sacred law in Arabic with facing English text, commentary and appendices edited and translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller (1994) p59.
* Note the English version falsely translates bazr as ‘prepuce ‘ of the clitoris!!)
Strict adherence to islamic values, of course! I was being rhetorical. If you are still uncertain as to what good islamic values might actually be, those values so superior to our Australian un-islamic values, the ever reliable dhimmi SMH has printed a guide.http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/slaughtered-in-name-of-family/2008/12/05/1228257318380.htmlI wonder if Keysar would care to comment? Which part of these much-vaunted “values” should we attempt to emulate? Islamic “honor” or Islamic murder?
I also wonder if he has any comment on the 16 cases of backyard clitorectomy reputed to have been performed in Queensland this past year?
http://fgmnetwork.org/news/show_news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1206899204&archive=&template=
Things to emulate from “islamic values”.
An article I recently read, relating to FGM, asks “whether groups that are illiberal and sexist should be afforded group rights and protections by liberal states, or whether, instead, sexist cultural practices and perhaps entire cultures should be altered or allowed to become ‘extinct’.”
The author, Susan Moller Okin, was discussing multiculturalism under the question,“Is Multiculturalism Bad for Women?” and her conclusion, in terms of the barbarity that has been sanctioned in order to appease politically correct, cultural tyranny, is… YES, M/C has been bad for many women, usually those who come from “3rd World” countries.
Like the students at the Brisbane school in question.
I watched video of the poor little mites, 2 nights ago, trotted out to do what the adults can’t do… defend islam. “See, how brightly they shine!”
Headscarf and other signs of inferior status proudly worn, it was quite obvious that the student body is made up of immigrant children and just as obvious that many of their parents would have been from those ‘3rd World countries’ we aren’t supposed to be critical of. Except if you are a Feminist academic, apparently.
About 12% of the schools student body (or their parents) come from Egypt.
“Egypt is the second most populous African nation and the most populous Arab nation. Egypt is a leader in Islamic jurisprudence, and its citizenry is 90% Muslim. Female circumcision (female genital mutilation or FGM) has been practiced in Egypt for thousands of years and perhaps as many as 97% of Egyptian “ever-married” women have endured the practice. Although there is disagreement among theologians, fundamentalists continue to promote FGM as an Islamic mandate for the preservation of women’s chastity.” (Source unknown) In fairness, the Egyptians have made FGM illegal, as of ’97, but reports from reliable sources indicate that the letter of the law and the practice of it is lagging somewhat in Egypt. Many tens of thousands of Egyptian women still face these horrors, just without access to modern medicine!
The chance that some of Keysar’s charges have been cut up to placate some primitive, religiously-inspired barbarity?
In MY AUSTRALIA, I don’t want to run the chance that even ONE has suffered this barbarity. I guess that is un-islamic, but I can live with it.
Keysar says upholding Australian law and culture is a pre-eminent focus of the school. Well, as FGM is illegal in Queensland and every other State, I suggest his school has a legal responsibility to inform Authorities of cases it knows of.
In the abridged Table below, please note that Indonesia, from where this school also draws a large number of its students, is rated as 100% in instituting 2 forms of FGM.
Note also the likelihood of the remaining school populace to be comprised of students from the other nations listed.
FGM Around the World
COUNTRY – PREVALENCE (%) – TYPE PERFORMED
Benin – 16.8 – II
Burkina Faso – 76.6 – II – Performed throughout the country in all but a few provinces.
Cameroon – 1 – I, II
Central African Republic – 35.9 – I, II
Chad – 44.9 – II – Widely practiced in all parts of Chad.
III – Confined to areas bordering Sudan in the eastern part of the country.Cote d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast) – 44.5 – II
Djibouti – 90-98 – II – Performed on girls of Yemeni origin. III – Most common among the Issa and Afar.
DRC (Congo)- Unknown – II
Egypt – 97.3% – I, II, III
Eritrea – 88.7 – I, II, III
Ethiopia – 79.9 – I – Commonly practiced among Amharas, Tigrayans and the Jeberti Muslims living in Tigray.
II – Most commonly practiced form. The Gurages, some Tigrayans, Oromos and the Shankilas practice this form.
III – Practiced in the eastern Muslim regions bordering Sudan and Somalia.
IV – Referred to as “Mariam Girz” in Ethiopia, it is practiced mainly in Gojam in the Amhara region.Gambia – 60-90 – I – The Sarahulis perform this on girls one week after birth. The Bambaras perform the procedure on girls between 10-15 years of age.
II – Nearly all Mandinkas, Jolas and Hausas practice this form on girls 10-15 years old.
III – The Fulas perform a procedure similar to Type III that is described as “vaginal sealing” on girls from one week old to 18 years old.
IV – The Fulas perform this type on girls from one week old to 18 years old.Ghana – 5.4 – I, II, III
Guinea – 98.6 – I, II, III, IV
Indonesia – 100 – I, IV
Kenya – 32.2 – I and II most common.
III – found in the far eastern areas bordering Somalia.Liberia – 50 – II
Mali – 91.6 – I, II, III (Type III practiced in southern areas of country)
Mauritania – 71.5 – I, II
Niger – 4.5 – II
Nigeria – 19 – I, II, III, IV
(Type I and II more prominent in the south; Type III more prominent in north)Senegal – 28.2 – II, III
(Type II is most common)Sierra Leone – 80-90 – II
Somalia – 90-98 – I – practiced mainly in the coastal towns of Mogadishu, Brava, Merca, and Kismayu.
III – Approximately 80% of the circumcisions are this type.Sudan – 90 – I, II, III
(Type III is most common)Tanzania – 17.7 – II, III
Togo – 12 – II
Uganda – 5 – No information available.
Yemen – 22.6 – II, III
DEFINITIONS OF TYPES OF FGC/FC :
Type I – Circumcision is the excision (removal) of the prepuce (clitoral hood) with or without removal of a part of the clitoris (a.k.a. sunna circumcision).Type II – Excision or clitoridectomy is the excision of the clitoris together with part or all of the labia minora (the inner vaginal lips).
Type III – Infibulation is the excision of part or all of the external genitalia (clitoris, labia minora and labia majora) and stitching or narrowing of the vaginal opening, leaving a very small opening, about the size of a matchstick, to allow for the flow of urine and menstrual blood. The girl or woman’s legs are generally bound together from the hip to the ankle so she remains immobile for approximately 40 days to allow for the formation of scar tissue (referred to as Sudanese circumcision in Egypt; referred to as Pharaonic circumcision in Somalia).
Type IV – Unclassified includes the p***king, piercing or incision of the clitoris and/or labia; also includes symbolic rituals. The application or insertion of corrosive substances into the vagina is also considered Type IV.
Defibulation or deinfibulation – Cutting open the scar tissue that has formed around the vaginal opening to allow penetration by her husband or for the birth of a child.
Refibulation or reinfibulation or recircumcision – The sewing up of a circumcised woman’s vaginal opening after childbirth or periodically during her life when she feels as though her opening has gotten too big or loose.
Alternative rituals – An alternative to FGM in which the traditional ceremony takes place without the actual cutting. In Kenya, girls go through a week-long program designed as a coming-of-age workshop. This ritual is called “Ntanira Na Mugambo” or “Circumcision Through Words.”
Introcision – A form of FGM/C that is practiced by the Pitta-Patta aborigines of Australia where the vaginal orifice is enlarged by tearing it downward with three fingers bound with an opossum string. The procedure is performed by an elderly man when the girl reaches puberty. In other districts, the perineum is split with a stone knife. Compulsory sexual intercourse with a number of young men usually follows the introcision. Mexico, Brazil, and Peru reportedly practice this form of FGM/C. In Peru, among a division of Pano Indians, an elderly woman uses a bamboo knife to cut around the hymen from the vaginal entrance and severs the hymen from the labia, at the same time exposing the clitoris. Medicinal herbs are applied, followed by the insertion of a phallic clay object into the vagina.
Islamic values or Australian? Frankly, the concept of “islamic values” is an affront to every person who calls himself Australian.
There is no way to overstate this – the implications of allowing islam to continue unchecked and cosseted by appeasing lawmakers, etc, MUST BE STOPPED, or this country runs the risk of sliding into a dark pit of depravity such as it has never known.
People of Australia – the time to fight for your country is NOW.
Update:
Female genital mutilation in Iraqi Kurdistan: “we will never stop because Islam and our elders require it”
The mainstream media and Islamic advocacy groups in the United States constantly tell us that female genital mutilation is a cultural practice that has nothing to do with Islam. They do this despite the fact that the among the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, Shafi’is consider circumcision obligatory for women; Hanbalis say it is an honorable custom, but not obligatory; Hanafis say it should be done as a courtesy to the husband. None of the three, you’ll note, say that the practice is wrong, immoral, un-Islamic.
Anyway, the upshot of this situation is that while most Westerners take for granted, if they’ve ever heard of female genital mutilation at all, that it is un-Islamic, it remains only Muslims who haven’t gotten this message.
“For Kurdish Girls, a Painful Ancient Ritual,” by Amit R. Paley for the Washington Post, December 29 (thanks to Morgaan Sinclair):
TUZ KHURMATU, Iraq – Sheelan Anwar Omer, a shy 7-year-old Kurdish girl, bounded into her neighbor’s house with an ear-to-ear smile, looking for the party her mother had promised.There was no celebration. Instead, a local woman quickly locked a rusty red door behind Sheelan, who looked bewildered when her mother ordered the girl to remove her underpants. Sheelan began to whimper, then tremble, while the women pushed apart her legs and a midwife raised a stainless-steel razor blade in the air. “I do this in the name of Allah!” she intoned.
As the midwife sliced off part of Sheelan’s genitals, the girl let out a high-pitched wail heard throughout the neighborhood. As she carried the sobbing child back home, Sheelan’s mother smiled with pride.
“This is the practice of the Kurdish people for as long as anyone can remember,” said the mother, Aisha Hameed, 30, a housewife in this ethnically mixed town about 100 miles north of Baghdad. “We don’t know why we do it, but we will never stop because Islam and our elders require it.”
Kurdistan is the only known part of Iraq –and one of the few places in the world–where female circumcision is widespread. More than 60 percent of women in Kurdish areas of northern Iraq have been circumcised, according to a study conducted this year. In at least one Kurdish territory, 95 percent of women have undergone the practice, which human rights groups call female genital mutilation.
The practice, and the Kurdish parliament’s refusal to outlaw it, highlight the plight of women in a region with a reputation for having a more progressive society than the rest of Iraq. Advocates for women point to the increasing frequency of honor killings against women and female self-immolations in Kurdistan this year as further evidence that women in the area still face significant obstacles, despite efforts to raise public awareness of circumcision and violence against women. […]
Supporters of female circumcision said the practice, which has been a ritual in their culture for countless generations, is rooted in sayings they attribute to the prophet Muhammad, though the accuracy of those sayings is disputed by other Muslim scholars….
Of course. But they don’t seem to be able to dispute the accuracy of those sayings effectually enough to curb this practice where it is found among Muslims.
Update:
Thousands of girls in Britain have suffered genital mutilation
Circumcision is “obligatory” for “both men and women” — so says a legal manual of the Shafi’i school of Islamic jurisprudence, ‘Umdat al-Salik (e4.3). This school is dominant in Egypt, where 97% of women have suffered genital mutilation. The Hanbali school teaches, in contrast, that female genital mutilation is not obligatory, while noting that it is accepted Islamic practice; the Hanafi school calls it “a mere courtesy to the husband.”
In any case, the Islamic justifications given for the practice enable it to continue. Yet in the West it is considered “Islamophobic” to mention these Islamic justifications. However, the longer they are ignore, the more girls will be mutilated in Britain and the West in general. Calling this an African custom, as this article does, is a misdiagnosis, and like all misdiagnoses it will contribute nothing toward a cure.
“Thousands of girls mutilated in Britain,” by Richard Kerbaj in the Times, March 16 or Jihad Watch
The NHS is to advertise free operations to reverse female circumcisions, with experts warning that each year more than 500 British girls have their genitals mutilated.Despite having been outlawed in 1985, female circumcision is still practised in British African communities, in some cases on girls as young as 5. Police have been unable to bring a single prosecution even though they suspect that community elders are being flown from the Horn of Africa to carry out the procedures.
The advertisement will appear from next month on a Somali satellite TV station much viewed in Britain. It features Juliet Albert, a midwife who does the reverse operations, and promises, in English and Somali, confidentiality for victims of female genital mutilation.
The advertisement was expected to help to undermine demand for girls to be circumcised, and to popularise the reversal procedure, Ms Albert said. Thousands of such operations have been carried out at specialist clinics and hospitals around Britain and demand is growing slowly.
Female circumcision, which is done for various reasons, such as religious and cultural traditions, can cause severe health complications including infections and psychological problems. The procedure, predominantly carried out on girls aged between 5 and 12, can range from the removal of the clitoris to the removal of all the exterior parts of the vagina, which is then sewn up.
A study by the Foundation for Women’s Health, Research and Development (Forward), estimated that 66,000 women living in England and Wales had been circumcised, most before leaving their country of origin. The government-funded research also found that more than 7,000 girls were at a high risk of being subjected to genital mutilation in Britain.
Sarah McCulloch, of the Agency for Culture Change Management UK, said that every year more than 500 British girls were having circumcisions. “A lot of them are done in the UK, but some still travel overseas,” she said….
Update:
Mali: Women demand law against genital mutilation
Brava! But they will face an uphill battle, with opposition sure to come from Islamic clerics. “Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)” –Â ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3.
“Women Finally Demand Law Against Genital Mutilation,” from MISNA, August 7 (thanks to JW):
Yesterday, some 700 activists, mostly women, have marched in favor of the introduction of laws to ban the practice of female genital mutilation (FMG) in Bamako. The demonstrators presented the request directly to parliament. The long overdue initiative, organized by the Coordination of women’s NGO’s in Mali, was repeated in other areas of the country, where more women also staged small gatherings. “The rate of FMG in Mali is very high, reaching some 92%” said Nicola Giovannini of the “No Peace without Justice” NGO to MISNA; the organization has been engaged in a vast campaign against female mutilation alongside Malian NGO’s. Giovannini said that in Mali, there is a strong political consensus for a law to ban the practice, but authorities have so far suggested that Malian society itself is not yet ready to penalize this terrible and very established practice. The participation in anti FMG protests suggests that there is an ever stronger – if long overdue – desire for change.
Al-Misri on Circumcision
Baron Bodissey
I reported briefly yesterday on the sharia requirement for female circumcision, as mandated by Reliance of the Traveller, which is the authoritative law manual under the Shafiite school of Islamic law. In the comments section on the post, Inalienable Rights requested that I scan the page in question and post it so that everyone could have a look.
I’m more than happy to comply, but a first brief introduction is in order. We (that is, people who resist the Great Jihad) are routinely accused of distorting Islamic doctrine, quoting material out of context, relying on “extremist” sources that do not represent “true Islam”, etc. I’ll present the material here as if I were establishing an evidentiary chain in a court of law, citing factual material from creditable sources so as to present a case that could stand up before a judge and a jury.
But this process represents Western standards of logic and legality. None of it will stop me from being accused of “defaming Islam”, because anything I do — even quoting authoritative sources on Islamic law — is defined as “defamation” under sharia if it does not serve to further Islam.
That’s why the kuffar may be legitimately shouted down for quoting the Koran, while Muslims may do the same freely. This is not illogical, and there’s no contradiction: it makes complete sense, once you understand the basic premises of Islamic doctrine.
*Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *
According to the title page, my copy is the Revised Edition (published 1991, revised 1994) and is “The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law ’Umdat al-Salik by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 769/1368) in Arabic with Facing English Text, Commentary, and Appendices”, edited and translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. The publisher is listed as amana publications in Beltsville, Maryland.
Why do I consider this an authoritative source on Sunni Islamic law?
Because it is certified as such by Al-Azhar University in Cairo. There is no higher authority on Sunni Islamic doctrine than Al-Azhar; it is the closest equivalent to the Vatican that can be found in Islam.
On page xx of the “Documents” preface, we find this encomium (the Arabic version, including official stamps and seals, is on the facing page xxi):
– – -Â – – – – –
[CERTIFICATION OF AL-AZHAR]
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASSIONATE
al-Azhar
Islamic Research Academy
General Department for Research, Writing, and TranslationMr. Nuh Ha Mim Keller
Amman, JordanPeace be upon you, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.
To commence: In response to the request you have submitted concerning the examination of the English translation of the book ’Umdat al-salik wa ’uddat al-nasik by Ahmad ibn Naqib in the Shafi’i school of jurisprudence, together with appendices by Islamic scholars on matters of Islamic law, tenets of faith, and personal ethics and character: we certify that the above-mentioned translation corresponds to the Arabic original and conforms to the practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni Community (Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama’a). There is no objection to printing it and circulating it.
The stamping of the pages of the above-mentioned work with the seal of the department has been completed.
May Allah give you success in serving Sacred Knowledge and the religion. Peace be upon you, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.
Composed on 26 Rajah 1411 A.H./11 February 1991 A.D.
General Director of Research, Writing, and Translation
Fath Allah Ya Sin Jazar [signed]Muhammad ’Umar Muhammad ’Umar [signed]
Seal of al-Azhar [stamped] General Department for Research, Writing, and Translation
This establishes the unassailable credentials of Nuh Ha Mim Keller’s translation of ’Umdat al-Salik.
In Book E “Purification”, section e4.0 “The Body”, we find on page 59 the following text:
This is the original Arabic, for those of our readers who read the language and can translate it for themselves. For everyone else, below is an image of the English side-by-side with the Arabic. I include e4.4 just to give you an idea of the type of material covered by Book E:
And here is the same text after it has been processed through the OCR:
e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)
As I mentioned yesterday, this section demonstrates that all four schools of Sunni law consider female circumcision a good thing, and two of them list it as mandatory.
I also mentioned that the original Arabic is more stringent than the English version, in that it specifies excising the entire clitoris rather than just the prepuce. I find further backing for this assertion in the Australian Islamist Monitor, which reports:
Reliance of the Traveller, a classical manual of Islamic sacred law in Arabic with facing English text, commentary and appendices edited and translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller (1994) re ‘circumcision’ we find the Arabic actually says –
“Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called HufaaD). “ (p59) (Shafi’I jurisprudence)
(Note the English version is falsely translated as ‘prepuce ‘ of the clitoris!!)
The Arabic word bazr does not mean “prepuce of the clitoris”, it means the clitoris itself (cf. the entry in the Arabic-English Dictionary). The deceptive translation by Nuh Hah Mim Keller, made for Western consumption, obscures the Shafi’i law, given by ’Umdat al-Salik, that circumcision of girls by excision of the clitoris is mandatory. This particular form of female circumcision is widely practiced in Egypt, where the Shafi’i school of Sunni law is followed. Note a comment by Sheikh ‘Abd al-Wakil Durubi in the English ‘version’ notes “Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.” (answering-Islam.org)
This is supported by several hadiths eg
Abu-Dawud Book 41, No. 5251: Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.
(Note: The powerful Mohammad did NOT stop the procedure yet he did stop the Arab practise of adoption when he wished to marry his adopted son’s wife Zainab, regarded as incest by the Arabs because adopted sons were held as sons!)
Anyone who reads Arabic is invited to check the image posted above against what AIM says here, and see if you agree with it.
With this, the sharia justification (and, under Shafi, requirement) for radical female circumcision is now clearly and fully demonstrated, and constitutes a “fact in evidence”.
Case closed.
These peaceful ones crack me up. On the one hand, they insist on modesty-dressing their women in shrouds and whatnot. On the other hand, these goofballs talk endlessly about all things sexual-far more than supposedly decadent Westerners do. For supposed prudes these guys sure seem obsessed with sexual matters.
“How much for the women? The little girls, how much?”
the practise of fgm is nothing more than removing a womans pleasure and use of power and control over women, islam is woman hating, always was,and women are merely for the pleasure of men. nothing in islam is for women but being objects of desire and being controlled all their lives how sad that women are brainwashed to believe it is god whom told a mad man to ensure that their pleasure in sex,the greatest love act beween men and woman is so robbed of their happiness and pleasure in such a macabre manner. laws must be enacted to ban migration of all women whom have had fgm done it shows that their family is incapable of assimilating and ban l with strict laws of jail for any child removed from australia to undergo fgm and to return again after the mutilation. jail and hell harsh punishment of au$500 000 per instance should do it.
See!! All cultures are the same, NOT! The damn prophet even gave advise on the matter, Let us make up a story about the prophet jumping off a cliff and see if the mindless drones follow his example. We can only hope…
G’Day Gabriel…
Can any human really confuse these scum as also being human?
May Peace of God be upon the humanism,
This picture may be true, but it’s not what Islam allows. There are plenty of traditional things others do and name them “in the name of Islam”.
Islam is the purest way of living. And it’s not against the women. I am women my self and I found the happiest moments while being a Muslimah. I am married and my husband practices Islam… and we are so happy together.
Please, be aware that Islam can’t be learned from people, but only from the Holy Quran (book of Islam).
People are those who do wrong, who do the mistakes, so we shouldnt rely on the actions of the people or in any traditional thing they do…
There was the only man who didnt do wrong and he was Prophet Muhammed. There are a lot of books you can read about his life. Please if you want to read them, do it but dont prejudge.
In the name of God, may this post make you aware of false things and untrue marketing of Islam.
samira
I hate this subject. I really do.
I believe it is wrong in the way it is practiced today. If the women were of age and given a choice, I could understand. However, some are drug kicking and screaming, and mutilated against their will.
If it was a choice, I would use the word modified but as the act is forced on children, it is a form of mutilation.
This is sick, it gives Islam a bad name in the eyes of other cultures. Especially considering that some of the practitioners say that it is Allah’s will. I find it hard to believe that a “loving” god would tell you to destroy your daughters woman hood to save her honor. Honor is found in resisting temptation, not pain.
it’s so terrible to see uneducated and unliterate people of Africa to do this terrible thing. Islam has nothing with this terrible exercise! In many Muslim countries this is banned! People who do this must be STOPPED and they must be JAILED for this. They must me Educated! I agree with Samira
Its not simply ‘uneducated and illiterate people in Africa’ who do this, it is done predominantly in Muslim countries because of this hadith:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab), Book 41, Number 5251)â€
Start with your own people, Ibrahim and samira. Don’t worry about other people in Africa. It begins and ends with Islam.
Please note also the poster above who is only concerned about what gives ‘Islam a bad name’- Islam is what Islam does, and FGM is a very Islamic practice. Now lets talk about honor killings…
I wonder at people who do this, it is as if they say ‘God was wrong to make a woman this way’.
It is as if they think they know better than God, as if they were correcting a mistake God made.
Shame on them I say, how dare they tamper with and alter that which God saw fit to create.
To our Muhammdedan apologists above: Islamic clerics would disagree with you. You better learn about your religion before you’re trying to peddle it to unbelievers:
Egyptian sheikh sues to allow female genital mutilation
From Earthtimes:
In an act that has sparked outrage among Egyptian women’s rights activists, a controversial Islamic scholar filed a lawsuit against the minister of health protesting a recent ban on female circumcision, a practice referred to by rights groups as female genital mutilation (FGM). Egyptian Sheikh Youssif al-Badri claimed the ministerial decree violated the Egyptian constitution as well as Islamic principles.
Conservative Muslim and Christian Egyptian families, have their daughters circumcised as a means to preserve their chastity. Recent studies revealed that about 90 per cent of Egyptian women have been subjected to the practice.
In June, the health ministry banned doctors and nurses from carrying out the procedure. The announcement followed the death of an 11-year-old girl in Upper Egypt as a result of the procedure. Medics who carry out circumcisions may face imprisonment and being stripped of their medical licenses.
While al-Badri argues that the practice is necessary in curbing women’s sexual inclinations, women’s rights activists and physicians disapprove of his view.
“Many of the circumcised women who seek our help were traumatised having no ability to lead a normal sex life, which affects their relationships with their husbands,” said Nihad Abul-Qomsan, head of the Egyptian Centre for Women’s Rights.
…Egypt’s top Islamic and Christian authorities were quick to voice support for the ban, saying the practice had no basis either in Koran or in the Bible.
“The constitution is based on the Islamic sharia law, which does not stipulate FGM, giving a wife the right to enjoy sex with her husband,” Khalil Mustafa Khalil, who holds a masters degree in FGM legislation, told the independent al-Badeel newspaper.
I’m just wondering what university gives a masters degree in FGM legislation.
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2007/12/egyptian-sheikh-sues-to-allow-female.html
thank for your small vrsion I would like what to do with my two doughters as some dont and other say do it (circumsize) kindly adivice me thanks
worried Muslim
This is a “BARBARIC” and Male chauvinistic intrusion on basic human rights. A woman in Islam has to be subjugated to the point of mutilation. When will Islam finally realize that hundred of years has passed from where such practices where instituted. To force a woman into such a mutilation for the sake of religion and/or the guise that it will make her calmer is pitiful. How would the men feel if one decided to neuter them to make them feel calmer.
The World is moving forward and some religious zealots would prefer living and consequently drag as many Muslims as they can back in the dark ages. Is that enlightenment?
“IMPOSING” is not freedom of choice. Why do you have to be so out of step with the whole World? It really defies any sense of logic.
It just breaks my heart to know that Islam reduces the state of women to nothing more than objects of pride and abuse.
Every evil you come across is islamic.
Now most moslem people try and give lame excuses that FGM is un-islamic then why the heck does it occur only in 99% islamic societies.
Are islamic men such losers that they cannot control their sexual desires and that if they see a woman’s face, they would commit sin in the middle of the road???
Burqas, hijabs, FGM, honor killings, muh-tas, stoning, live-burying … what else do u wanna hear?
i pray to god to exterminate all women in islamic countries all-together rather than subjecting them to such terrors… and then lets see what opinion all the moslem men would have… i am sure they would have a fine islamic excuse of good riddance.
People get the wrong idea about FGM. They seem to think that just the clitoris is removed . They also seem to think that removing the clitoris is awful because it robs the woman of any sexual enjoyment. The normal FGM includes the inner and sometimes the outer labia, clitoris as well. Making the woman susceptible to all sorts of infections , from urination, to defecation to child birth, and sex. It makes all those bodily functions as well as sexual intercourse extremely painful. Why Muslim men want women who have been so abused is beyond me unless they have no confidence in their abilities as lovers.
Circumcision of the helpless, male or female, is the first step of trauma-based mind control– creating later obedience to all atrocity and war.
No where in the Quran is it written that FGM or Female circumcision be done.
Yes, in the Hadeeth it was noted that the Prophet (P.B.U.H) had said “Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab), Book 41, Number 5251)†but it was meant to not cut any part of her sexual organs because he knew if done so would be cruel to the girl/woman.
Islam is twisted by culture and people make it appear in the worst possible light. It is a pure religion, and if one did their best to understand it… they would learn that it is not one to promote such dreadful things about women.
Dear All,
Dear All,
i’m a 15 year old girl. At school I learn all about this in Geography. Yes, it is sick. But you can’t blame the children for not knowing any better. I’m not saying I agree that Female Genital Mutilation should be happening. but think about it. these people in generations have grown up like this, grown up knowing this as their religion. they cant speak up for what they want, they will be hurt or treated as if they have commited a murder. yes i definatley think this is something wrong to do, and i cant believe that these children can under-go the pain, not only physically but emotionally, they are awake during the whole thing, though some pass out from the unbearable pain. I could not imagine going through the pain these young girls go through. and then going through the pain of it again in sex and after having a child. i mean they are cut/circumsized with a rusty razor blade that has been used on heaps and heaps of girls. its horrible…i hope many people have read my thoughts on this and take this into account.
my name is alia and i am a muslim women. and just for all of you ignorant people here, there is nothing in the quraan about circumsizing a women and absalutly no hadeeth what so ever! i come from a relegious family, and i am a Female! and guess WHAT!! i am not circumsized!!! for all of u ignorant out there, how about u do ur homework before making any inappropriate accusations! and stop distorting islam’s image! and find a real hobby instead!!!
Questions will continue. Infinite is always the answer.
it’s a very bad thing to do! It’s unhumain!
Aaliyah is right. There is nowhere in Quraan says anything about FGM. This was carried for many many years well before islam was revealed. Yes it is true there are some muslims who still do this but it has nothing to do with Islam.
R, if you are suffering from reading comprehension problems go back to school. Nobody claimed its in the Koran, its in the hadith. Read yourself through the thread in order to make an informed comment. Btw: There are not ‘some Muslims who still do this’, tens of millions of Muslims do this and it is becoming more rampant and more entrenched from Indonesia to Yemen and many other countries, especially Egypt where 95% of women have their clitoris cut out.
I just found out today that my girlfriend had her clitoris removed when she was a kid … this is unbelievable to me … I cried so much … she seems to be fine with it, but I just think of how she never had a choice and that now she’ll never know the difference…
It’s not right. If anyone out there is considering cutting their daughters, I beg you to reconsider. If you agree that God created us the way we are, then what right do we have to cut pieces from our helpless children…?
these days people do all sorts of stupid things in the name of islam
once a stupid professor married a girl took her to the desert and sewed up her genitals
he force his ‘thing’ into hers by forcing the stitches finally all the stitches forcefully ripped by intercorse
and the girl is left unconcious and wakes up in the day
again this whole event repeats everyday
and the man says its a sunah of the prophets
i think some ppl is practicing their fantasy BSDM in the name of religion
these ppl chant all bullshit
FUCK u sheikyermami
ppl like you who have being called extremists are ruining our countries
we were peacfull befor you ugly ppl came out
and to think u do all this in the name of the true religion of islam
u re just another faker in a turban
may god punish you for misleading and bringing these horrids in the name of islam
damn… I really hate this. Shame for all those people who do this!!!!!
Seems like world doesn’t need any medical discoveries or science widely, just religion. But guess, which of them helps people to really live better? All this fuss around religions and all the brutual things they have brought along starting of Holy Wars and finishing FGM, I rather suspect religions are of just the same kind and purpose as the numerous brain-washing idealogies as nazism or communism or racism or fashism etc. Sorry, true religious people, if I happened to offend you, but I grew up in a former soviet system and have never felt religion missing in my life. Have happily lived up today without even thinking of God (the real one), yet not without the Red “Gods”.
Ok i’m an american muslim female. Before anyone gets all emotional and judgemental i would like to point out that this practice is not islamic at all. This practice existed thousands of years ago in africa and continues on today. If we look at non-african islamic countries we don’t see them praciticing FGM because it’s an ancient african practice. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did not perform this practice or preach it. The one hadith recorded states that he was asked by a woman that performs that and he was surprised and asked her “is that what you perform (in ur culture)” then “don’t take too much as it is better for a woman and desirable for a husband to not have FGM” and even this whole Hadith is a week one meaning that it might not be authentic at all. A lot of muslim clergy also forbade the practice as it inflicts harm on the woman whether it be physical or emotional and that’s forbidden in islam and any other religion really. Please before making jugements let educate ourselves first and know what we are talking about. Good Day.
FGM is pre-Islamic, so why is it coupled to the decent religion, that is awful, for one thing, I agree with those who stood against the practice, because it would make the next generation happier in their feelings and free from the depression caused by forcible operations, so I comment on the full support to those who are discouraging the evil practices like the FGM
I don’t care WHERE it stems from, it’s sick and wrong.
Why don’t they cut penisses? sounds equeal
I mean penises.
In Pakistan, India, Bangladesh there is no such practice as female circumcision. Even though Islam supports female circumcision strictly to the extent of removing the prepuce NOT to reduce libido, on the contrary TO ENHANCE pleasure and HASTEN ORGASM. This is yet another gift Islam gave to women like many others during Europe’s Dark Ages.
– Islam gave women right to own property at least 1200 years before Europe.
– Islam declared equality of women more than thousand years before women fought in Europe to have this right.
– West is truggling with abortion or no abortion, Islam decided about sanctity of human life 1400 years ago.
– Islam gave women the highest honor in the society when the prophet declared, “Paradise lies under the feet of your mother”. The so called enlightened world is busy doing incest in the name of ‘consenting adults’. Shame on you.
As for those tribal cultures who practice removal of clitoris based on a cultural legacy and call it Islam out of sheer ignorance, Islam bashers can draw their fodder from them. All muslims are not abiding by the Islamic laws anyway. For example, in Islam growing a beard is mandatory by men, how many do it? Why is bashing one sided? People who cheered at the Galdiators when they drew blood from another human for pleasure and sports should seek some seriosu reading of Islam and its values.
Dear Anis,
in Indonesia 30 years ago there was no such thing either, but now its rampant. Looks like Islam is a work in progress…?
In your fervor to ‘protect Islam’, which is your religious duty, you obviously didn’t read the article in depth or with understanding.
As for your other apologies:
Women have owned property long before Muhammadanism came along, how do you think Kaddija, Muhammads first wife, was able to employ him? Muhammad was a pauper who married a rich old woman!
Since Muhammad, in Islam, women are chattel. Look it up here:
http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/19/muslim-woman/
The rest of your post is deflective drivel. Stick to facts please!
this is nastey and fuckin wrong i dont understand why people do this shit
This is so wrong …………only for male pleasure ………..yeah the males are also circumcised but only a piece of skin. The females have the hood of the clit, the clit and the lips removed and also are closed up, giving them more problems during their montly cycles, sex and childbirth.
OH,……… I forgot IT IS A MAN’S WORLD……… To equal this for the men… CUT THE TIP OF THEIR PENIS.
Disgusting barbaric practice and evil. And Sheiks analysis of the subject is very accurate as I also did a video on subject recently and pissed of all the dumb Muzzy’s Oh well the truth hurts. I guess the men over there have to tighten up their women because they have small dicks. Women are nothing more than a barnyard animal to be abused beaten and bruised at men chauvinstic whims. Thanks to Muhammad the pedophile necirphiliac sex craved psychopath.
female circumcision is more a cultural practice than a matter of Islamic teachings. the hadîth (sayings of prophet Mohammad pbuh) which refer to the practice are all weak. The presence of that practice in Egypt an Nubia up to this day is just a continuation of a practice that has been around since the time of the Pharaohs. It is often hard for people to give up deeply ingrained customs and cultural practiced. They continue to be passed down from generation to generation.
Another example of the tenacity of custom is the practice among Indian Muslims where the woman pays a dowry to the husband. This is a pre-Islamic Indian custom that Islam declares false. Islam requires the husband to pay a dowry to the wife. Nevertheless, this custom persists among Muslims in both India and Pakistan, even though the history of Islam in India goes back for many long centuries.
Likewise, Islam put an end to many pre-Islamic customs that marginalized women and denied them their rights. It put an end to people condemning each other’s lineages. It put an end to the practice of wailing at a person’s burial. Nonetheless, these practices can still be seen in some Muslim societies and are often regarded by the people of those societies to be part and parcel of Islamic Law.
The Shâfi`î school of law has been the prevalent legal school in Egypt since its formative years. It may be that the scholars of the Shâfi`î school who promoted the view that female circumcision is obligatory had been influenced by the prevailing culture of the region.
There is no evidence that this practice was widespread among the Pious Predecessors. Moreover, the practice has never been prevalent in the regions where Islam originated – Mecca and Madinah and the surrounding areas of Arabia. It is extremely rare. If female circumcision had truly been endorsed by Islamic Law, it would certainly have been practiced and perpetuated in those regions. Only male circumcision is practiced, due to the authentic evidence in the Sunnah that it is part of the natural way (fitrah).
We conclude that female circumcision is merely a cultural practice that has no prescribed Islamic ruling for it and that is supported by no decisive ****ual evidence. It is simply a regional custom in the places where it is practiced. We must then take into consideration that many medical professionals consider it to have detrimental affects for the girls who undergo the operation. On that basis, it would be impermissible to allow this custom to continue. In Islamic Law, preservation of the person – the life and bodily soundness of the person – is a legal necessity. Anything that compromises this legal necessity by bringing harm to the person is unlawful.
sheikyermami you should be more accurate;
only women of what was considered -prestigeous- were allowed to owe money and that was only in case of the death of their husbands. This was the case of khadijah- prophet’s wife- PBUH. So I think the rest of what u say also needs scrutinization.
What Anis says is right!
reem,
take your taqiyya and denials to the Islamic clerics who insist that FGM is an Islamic requirement.
It is no use to come here and to claim its all not true in spite of the evidence. Are you a greater scholar than Yusuf Al Qaradawi and all the others?
You can scrutinize as much as you like, but perhaps you should start learning how to read a post correctly…
sheikyermami ur such an retard, we all muslims hate you! all sunni scholars say circumcision is only for MEN. ur sick idiot, inshaAllah u will be burned rotten in the hell!
Noor you are the retard…so you freely admit that your religion teaches you to hate…how do you think western people feel when they see all the ugly, rugged up, hags waddling along their streets..
To others going on about islam’s image..what image? All over the world islam is associated with terrorism , murder , mayhem , female oppression , floggings , hand amputations , bribery , corruption , beheadings…crime , gangs , gang rape , dishonesty , insurance fraud…etc etc.. Nothing good ever comes out of islam..it is a death cult…a brainwashing machine…
I hope the cultists posting here will one day be free.
I have truly been sickened…these pics are not the first I have seen but are by far the worst.
Strange this very subject comes up, just a few days after I posted about an article from my ‘Local” newspaper on this very subject. The subject/person in my personal comment about the article is from Eritrea and grew up in Ethiopia, from a long standing Catholic/Christian family. However, as FGM is a required thing as proscribed in the hadith it seems that it has become a wide-spread practice of muslims as well. But I do not know if any of the previous generations of this family were once muslim but she did say it had been a long-standing practice in her community and family.
Whichever way it started…it should be totally banned and charges should be laid against the perpetuators of this barbaric practice. Where are the PC human rights advocates in all this. Why are the UN not screaming over this…oh yeah I forgot, silly me!!! most of them are good mussos themselves. My God, even ‘Animal Rights’ people have banned muesling of sheep, thus leaving the sheep fly-blown.. and de-tailing of certain breeds of dogs, as it is deemed no longer necessary.
In 1998-99 I was in Uni and was required to read a book titled: “The Yellow Room”, where women who were ‘fragile’ and suffering from depression, anxiety etc.’ were confined to a yellow room for recovery, the other treatment was a full hysterectomy. Nowadays, a full or partial hysterectomy is only done for absolute medical purposes, such as cancer or disease.
If anyone is interested in the local article I wrote about, you can get there from This sites links at feedjit. I don’t know if I can put my blogs address on here.
Beauseant…
Everyone should stop being so blind to what is in front of their own eyes.
God is not a human. God would never appear on earth as a human. In order to create the universe, god must be ONLY ONE THING, logically.
That is god is a force. Not a human running around preaching or telling people how to live or turning water into wine, or moving oceans at will to make other people escape.
No, god is a force, he does not think as humans do. God is the reason you see light coming out of your screen. God is the reason your skin is held together. God is the reason your not a pile of gases and ice blocks right now.
EVERYONE should take science courses, and really take the time to think about what they learn and open your own mind. Forget what you have learned so far, learn some science, and really think about what you are learning.
God is an amoral force that governs this world and makes it possible for everything you see to happen. PEOPLE please hear my words, stop believing in falsehoods, stop preaching and stop forcing others to follow your way, these are all characteristics of corrupt human thinking. Think about how lucky you are to live, and that your not a pile of gases and ice cubes, and live your life happily and peacefully. Leave everyone else alone and focus on your on journey in this universe. Then we will have a peaceful world.
I just wanted to add one more thought, sorry for taking up space, im just trying to make the world a better place <3
As religions say, god as to be correct all the time right? God has to be something that is always correct. Well whats the one thing in the world that never breaks its pattern of behaving? Humans always break their own rules so god cant be a human, and he would not show himself as a human who is so corrupt and not set in his ways. Im sorry for referring to god as a boy, it is the result of human education and language, it itself is corrupt.
The one thing that has never changed in this world is, and will always be, the force of nature. It is the one constant in the entire universe. It doesn’t care if someone is innocent or not. It cares only if the laws of nature are holding. It cares only about the rate at which reactions and interactions are occurring. Forces of nature are the only true constant in this world that govern the entire universe and they cannot be broken. That is why God is the force of nature. It does not care if you built a church or a mosque or a synagogue to worship it. It only cares that you follow the laws of nature, to which you have no options of breaking…..please let me know when you have broken the laws of nature 😛 im sure you will become very rich for it.
All I’m trying to say, is forget all the things you have learned, live peacefully and happily, because everyone on this earth is under the rule of god, and we will all subject to its unbreakable power to the very end, that is death. The world will continue on existing as it did before you were born.
thankyo
hi all logical friends…I ‘m an Iranian , a place that u may think about it wrong ..here is iran , a place that islam have surrounded it in all cities and streets.. but when i read this, i was just shocked.. i haven’t hear such a foolish thing happening in Iran , and when i asked i understand that is also illegal doing it… so it could not be an islamic tradition .. i think its just a custom in some countries , not related to islam.
all this about FGM is sick ………… these people are mentally retarded
..
…………… just stand them in a row and shoot them till death … they really deserve this type of action…….. how they can be so cruel .. it is horrifying to see this happening …….
Think, it’s only one of plenty islamic propositions for Europe in the near future.Wait for more…
Any one who does this to people are just sick fuckers and should have their fucking balls cut off with a rusty knife ,
You notice it men who are making the rules
no wonder nobody wants anything to do with these assholes ,
kick the whole lot of them out of the west and back to their 15th century countries ,
god gave us these things and some smart ass man decided to fuck with what god gave them ,,
anyone who still believes in this will rot in hell
UNFUCKING REAL…………SAD AND CRUEL, RELIGOUS OR NOT….THAT IS HORRIBLE
I’d like to see the doctor, or the people (the mothers)who believ this and who do this to little girls, who have no choice, have thier assholes cut open, and let them bleed like the pigs they are, and maybe, tear open their balls with a rusty nail, and let the vas defferenc hang out and after all that pain……….snip it so the bastard can’t have KIDS………..of his own to torcher……..FUCK MAN..THIS IS SOOOOOOOOOOOO INHUMANE………IT’S almost unbearable to think let alone see it…..unfucking real
such practice lead to seriues sychological sickness those who do such things MUST hang till death . beacuse they commet crime aginist humanity .
Thankyou sheikyermam for this information. I really didn’t know much about this till I read this and the links. I can not fathom how this can happen. governments and charities are raising awareness and funds for things like poverty aids and the such (which are all important) but where are the ad campaigns and fund raising to stop FGM I am sure there are some out there but this should be out there at the top of the list, I have never seen an ad campaign on my TV or a banner on a website which is such a shame I would gladly give all the money I have or will ever have if it would stop one woman being mutilated physically mentally and spiritually. FGM is so revolting it makes me sad to be human it makes me sad to be a woman and it makes me sick to my stomach that other women and men could possibly condone this type of behaviour. All countries that do not approve of this in anyway (not just the countries with leaders that say its illegal then give the very few people found guilty insignificant punishments) should not only pressure the countries that condone this into eradicating the horrendous procedure and I use that term lightly but flat out put a trade, foreign aid, and another dealings veto on them. I hope that this is abolished and those whoever took part in, allowed, or pressured this into happening are executed. And lastly to any woman who has had this done to her I am so sorry this happened and if I could change your past I would.
When I saw these images, all I wanted to do was cry. This is inhumane! This needs to to stop! What can I do to help stop this madness?!
SAVAGE NASTY FUCKS!!! WOW am I pissed!!! AND to think that the women, the mothers do this to their own daughters!! ANd the BITCHES who do the procedures. IN SCHOOLS!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE
This was very informative. But also I jsut want ot say that Wikepidia is not a reliable sourse at all!! Anyone can update it. So there is really no need ot even bother proving that they are wrong or right, or whatever…a waiste of time…
this is totally wrong….they say for the name of islam but it is actualy not, people who missunderstood the religion. I feel sorry for those female that actualy goes under the knife. may allah help those people who say or believes in circumcisions for female.
people, most of this words is wrong. About Islam ,mohammad,and that fucking religions I swear! I say yes there are some of theme but this person who give you these informations didn’t explane it or did not give you the right reasons of this act. And for your information there are some people who call thim selfs Muslems but they didn’t, and they didn’t do what the Muslems do,even they don’t know what is the Islam or what is fact of Islam. So,don’t blame the Islam for what the other do or for who you think it is Muslem. And if you want to know the truth of the Islam you shuld read the qura’an and know what is say after that belive what do you want to belive. And forgive me for my bad English.
This is inhumane… God created this “thing” in woman why muslim people wants it to be gone. It’s very much unfair to God that His creation of woman is not perfect thats why that “thing” had to be cut. If God created you as a whole it means nothing is missing or having an extra part. The creation of human anatony is perfect.
This is inhumane… God created this “thing” in woman why muslim people wants it to be gone. It’s very much unfair to God that His creation of woman is not perfect thats why that “thing” had to be cut. If God created you as a whole it means nothing is missing or having an extra part. The creation of human anatomy is perfect.
Kay”I guess the men over there have to tighten up their women because they have small dicks.”
You’re actually right. Global surveys of penis size indicates Saudi Arabian Muslims have litte peckers:
1)France – 6.3
2)Italy – 5.9
3)Mexico – 5.87
4)Germany- 5.7
5)Chile5.5
6)Colombia 5.4
7)Spain -5.3
8)Japan – 5.12
9)USA 5.0
10)Venezuela 5.0
11)Brazil – 4.88
12)Saudi A – 4.88
13)Greece – 4.79
14)India – 4.02
15)South K – 3.78
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php?t-6426641.html
i the irani we islamic sory in the web be couse islamic no danger in the work no understand the islam !!!!!!!!!!!!answered Islam to all, give yourself a tick!! But remember, it’s nothing to do with Islam!!
no islam no work woman in the iran open
Omg this is fucking sick. I mean I have always known about FGM but seeing the pictures of a liittle girls bloody vajayjay clamped open with metal hooks…ugggghhh it is so wrong!!! And to think…many girls at my school have probably had FGM since my school has a high African/muslim population…omg I cannot imagine going through it. FGM is equivalent to rape and no offense but religion is manipulative method of brainwashing..
This happens because some follow a book that was written 1000s of years ago. Principles and ethics change. That is a fact. If it didn’t we would be living in the stone age. I know that the majority of religions are opposed to this but does FGM not highlight the ridicules nature of some religions?
I know some will be opposed to me being against religion but no one can deny that sadistic practices like FGM occur due to religion.
Agreed Adnileb – the question is how to change these practices. I think the question goes deeper than religion, but that is only my opinion.
i’m the woman .. and muslim .. i can’t accepted that .. its very frighten .. cause “Female Genital Mutilation has nothing to do with Islamâ€
quoting you in your article:
“is mostly practised by Muslims and has spread around the world with Islam”
Well you are absolutely WRONG my dear. PLEASE! do me a favor, when you open a blog and try to make an argument about something, please relate to dependable sources. FGM is originally an African tradition, originated among many african groups and spread around africa, especially central africa and east africa. Only 3 countries in all the countries that are known to have the FGM practice are actually predominantly muslim (these are my home country Sudan, plus Egypt and Somalia).
What you have cited confidently as a story related to prophet mohamed talking to the female circumciser is not considered a strong source. In islamic laws, any saying that is related to prophet mohamed are ranger in different levels according to how dependable their sources are. some sayings are called “sahih or correct” others are called “daief or weak” the story you mentioned is very weak because nobody seems to locate it’s source!! Some muslims may have made it up to justify their doing and encourage other muslims to do it by calling it a religious practice.
Let me tell you something here, if anything has saved me from getting circumcised, it’s ISLAM. my parents were very educated, but my grandmother and other elder people in the family were not! elder people have a very respected opinion back home. my grandmother was referring to this same story about prophet mohamed when she was trying to convince my parent. one year my dad happened to go to saudi arabia for pilgrim (Hajj) where he went to see a famous religious figure (sheikh) in the muslim world. my dad asked him about FGM, the sheikh told my dad that it was wrong, cruel, and against islamic values. he told him if it was an islamic practice prohpet mohamed would have practiced and encouraged it, but there’re no sources or citings of him doing that!!! only boys circumcision is required in Islam, and prophet mohamed is believed to have been born circumcised.
My dad came back home with books on the islamic view in FGM which he read to us and since then my grandmother never mentioned the subject again. If it wasn’t for Islam, God know I would have a vagina as ugly as that in the picture!
Dear haboya, you are either a liar or naive. Besides, you seem to suffer from reading comprehension. The article -any fool can see that- cites Islamic clerics and good Muslims who believe in it. (Female genital mutilation “is part of the Sunna of the Prophet) Why don’t you take it up with sheik Fehmi and his ilk instead of telling us unbelievers that we have it wrong?
Amnesty International estimates that over 130 million women worldwide have been affected by some form of FGM, with over 2 million procedures being performed every year. FGM is mainly practiced in African countries.[30] It is common in a band that stretches from Senegal in West Africa to Ethiopia on the East coast, as well as from Egypt in the north to Tanzania in the south; see Map. It is also practiced by some groups in the Arabian peninsula. The country where FGM is most prevalent is Egypt, followed by Sudan, Ethiopia, and Mali. Egypt recently passed a law banning FGM.[31]
Whilst FGM is widely practiced out in the open by Africans of varied faiths, it is practiced in secrecy in some parts of the Middle East. In the Arabian peninsula, Types I and II FGM is usually performed, often referred to as Sunna circumcision especially among Afro-Arabs (ethnic groups of African descent are more likely to prefer infibulation). The practice occurs particularly in northern Saudi Arabia, southern Jordan, and northern Iraq (Kurdistan) [32][33]. In the Iraqi village of Hasira, a recent study found that 60 percent of the women and girls reported having undergone FGM[34]. Before the study, there had been no solid proof of the prevalence of the practice. There is also circumstantial evidence to suggest that FGM is practiced in Syria and Kurdistan.[35][36] In Oman, a few communities still practice FGM; however, experts believe that the number of such cases is small and declining annually. In the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, it is practiced mainly among foreign workers from East Africa and the Nile Valley.
The practice can also be found among a few ethnic groups in South America[citation needed]. In Indonesia, the practice is not uncommon among the country’s rural women; almost all are Type I or Type IV, the latter usually involving the pricking of blood release. Sometimes the procedures are merely symbolic, and no actual cutting is done.[37]
The hadith backs this up:
Sahih Muslim: Aishah narrated an authentic Hadith that the Prophet said: “When a man sits between the four parts (arms and legs of his wife) and the two circumcised parts meet, then ghusl is obligatory.”
At least one of the four Sunni schools of religious law, the Shafi’i school, rules that trimming of the clitoral hood is mandatory.[66] Sheikh Faraz Rabbani states, “That which is [fard|wajib] [obligatory] in the Shafi`i texts is merely slight ‘trimming’ of the tip of the clitoral hood – prepuce.” Contrary to the WHO definition, he states that this practice is not “FGM, nor harmful to the woman or her ability to derive sexual pleasure.”
this is so wrong i’m crying right now!!!!!!!!!!! this is fucked i mean how can do this to little innocent girls the pain oh my fuckend god this is shit fuck god fuck who can they even do this.
This is so horrible!!!!
This is an absolutely false and not true, the sunnah and prophet Muhammad pbuh never oredered that to be made. And take a look where do people do it – where there are no educated people. It’s either stupid people who do this or extremist dumb fools. This has nothing to do with Islam and its teachings, it is cultural and not religious, and unfortunately there are many mixes between religion and culture these days which might give Islamic religion a bad picture. People do things similar to animals and they say “it’s our religion”. Islam is the only True Word of God we have in our hands these days and this religion should not be judged by certain people who lack knowledge or speak for personal or other interests.
Have a great day. 🙂
really….who cares if it is religion or culture?!…it needs to be stopped.period. its sick, horrifying and wrong. so why argue why its practice?… ban together to stop it!
I find these actions extremely sad. I cannot imagine the kind of psychological and emotional damage done to all of these girls and women. People are supposed to be comfortable in the skin they’re in, and sex is a beautiful thing! I believed it should be enjoyed by both man and woman! I understand it can be a tradition, but science and knowledge is advancing, and now that people are becoming conscious of the amount of pain female circumcision can bring later on in a woman’s life, they should stop. If you’re considering doing this to your daughter, PLEASE for HER SAKE, THINK TWICE!
what are you speaking about?
about islam ?
do you know any thig about islams?
this low isnt in islam . im moselm and i have 1 sister 1 wife .
we didn’t this work with women.
its a rong culture
if you want to know about islam
call me
im A MUSLEM
we must work hard to stop this brutualness and cruelty actions. I do believe that no one of those religions allow the foolsh things like this..
I am living in India with 130 Million Muslims, the 2nd largest Muslim Population in the world.
Not even single such cases reported ever, its nothing more than mere tradition of some particular place and nothing to do with Islam.
Are you dyslexic? Are you saying because its not reported it is not happening? Is it in the hadith/sunnah or not?
Dear Mr. Sheikyermami
Thanks for the response, if it is in the Hadith / Sunnah it will be practiced in the whole Islamic world like the male circumcision, I had the chance to live among Muslims both in my home country India and outside but never ever experienced the presence of such a practice. Things like this comes to prominence through this kind of sites only.
Regards,
najeeb
“Things like this comes to prominence through this kind of sites only.”
Then what’s your problem, Najeeb? You rather not have the world know how evil Islam is?
I used to live in Indonesia. Nobody wore hijab then. Nobody was involved in female genital mutilation.
Now they do both, everywhere you go. Why do you think that is?
Dear Mr. Sheikyermami
“YOU RATHER NOT HAVE THE WORLD KNOW HOW EVIL ISLAM IS?â€
If you are referring about the Muslims with the above statement there is some truth in it, like every community there are evil people in Muslim community too…. But you use the word “Islamâ€, I am sorry to say that, either you are ignorant or deliberately trying to malign Islam, this is not the only page of this kind there are hundreds of such site existing on the net.
A Jew will not accept or believe in Jesus so as a Christian in the case of Prophet Mohammed, but we Muslims believe and respect both Moses and Jesus, you search the whole world you cant find a Muslim who will abuse or disbelieve Moses or Jesus.
The Holy Quran does not mention the name of the mother or wife of Prophet Mohammed, the only female name mentioned in Holy Quran is Mary, the title of the 19 chapter in Quran itself Mary. When the Jews questioned Mary’s chastity the word of God came to her defend.
AND MARY, DAUGHTER OF IMRAN, WHOSE BODY WAS CHASTE, THEREFORE WE BREATHED THEREIN SOMETHING OF OUR SPIRIT. AND SHE PUT FAITH IN THE WORDS OF HER LORD AND HIS SCRIPTURES, AND WAS OF THE OBEDIENT. (QURAN: 66: 12)
AND WHEN THE ANGELS SAID: O MARY! LO! ALLAH HATH CHOSEN THEE AND MADE THEE PURE, AND HATH PREFERRED THEE ABOVE (ALL) THE WOMEN OF CREATION. (QURAN 3: 42)
THE MESSIAH, SON OF MARY, WAS NO OTHER THAN A MESSENGER, MESSENGERS (THE LIKE OF WHOM) HAD PASSED AWAY BEFORE HIM. AND HIS MOTHER WAS A SAINTLY WOMAN. (QURAN: 5: 75.
Further more see what Almighty God has said about who speaks against Mary
AND BECAUSE OF THEIR DISBELIEF AND OF THEIR SPEAKING AGAINST MARY A TREMENDOUS CALUMNY; (QURAN 4: 156)
While we Muslims respect Jesus and his mother at the same time you people wasting time and money to misguide and malign Islam and Muslims and to make things more funny for this purpose you allied with people who rejects both Jesus and his mother…
Regards
najeeb
Dear Najeeb,
Islam is Muhammad worship. No more, no less. Allah is Muhammad’s invention.
The Muslim Jesus, Isa, has nothing in common with the Christian Jesus.
Isa is an invention by your prophet who was illiterate and unable to read the scriptures. No wonder the Jews and the Christians of the day laughed at him.
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/12/26/isa-the-muslim-jesus/
According to your belief system ‘Isa’ Will Abolish Christianity
‘Muslims believe Jesus will come back, break the cross and lead the war against the kaffirs’-
There’s more: Jesus will come back, break the cross, kill the swine and abolish the jiziyah.
Who are the swine, Najeeb? Are they not the Christians?
No, you don’t respect anything. Not Moses, not Jesus, not Abraham. You don’t even respect the 10 commandments, the basis of all religion and guide for humanity.
Just for the record: I am not a Christian, so your writing above is quite meaningless to me.
* QURAN: 5: 75
Najeeb, verses like that, and those preceding it, are the reasons that
muslims remain under the curse of sin and death and hell. “allah”
cannot save you, nor can the false prophet Mohammed. Only Jesus
Christ, God’s only begotten Son, who died on the cross for our sins,
and was resurrected, can save us. Muslims reject God’s plan of
salvation, and are doomed. Nothing “allah” can do about it. Follow
him (aka satan) at your peril.
Dear Mr. Mullah Lodabullah
Your writing doing nothing but putting an underline to what i said
regards
najeeb
Dear Mr. Sheikyermami
“ISLAM IS MUHAMMAD WORSHIP. NO MORE, NO LESS. ALLAH IS MUHAMMAD’S INVENTIONâ€
The above words shows that you don’t even know the basics of Islam, if a person worship Mohammed he will become a Khaffir and out of Islam.
Allah is neither the name of Muslim God nor the invention of Mohammed but he is the creator and sustainer of everything who was worshipped by Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and all the Prophets, name of prophet Mohammad’s father (who died before the prophet’s birth) was Abdullah (Slave of Allah), so people were well aware of Allah before the birth of Mohammed also, the Prophet was not the first person who did talked about Allah but he was the last messenger form Almighty Allah.
“THE MUSLIM JESUS, ISA, HAS NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE CHRISTIAN JESUSâ€.
Forget about Islamic view of Jesus, if you are ready we can discuss about Jesus with Biblical view.
“ISA IS AN INVENTION BY YOUR PROPHET WHO WAS ILLITERATE AND UNABLE TO READ THE SCRIPTURESâ€.
Prophet Mohammed was an illiterate, this is emphasize the divine origin of Holy Quran
“NO WONDER THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS OF THE DAY LAUGHED AT HIM.â€
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/12/26/isa-the-muslim-jesus/
If you keep your eye open you can see the number people reverting to Islam is ever increasing, especially in the western world. The above given link to your writing is irrelevant. I need the proof for your claim.
“ACCORDING TO YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM ‘ISA’ WILL ABOLISH CHRISTIANITY ‘MUSLIMS BELIEVE JESUS WILL COME BACK, BREAK THE CROSS AND LEAD THE WAR AGAINST THE KAFFIRSâ€
Jesus did not established any religion, today’s Christianity is the invention of Paul who was the arch rival of Jesus and his disciples, Jesus never claimed any divinity, he showed people the path to God, he forbid people from calling him Lord… Lord.. read Gospel of Mathew. 7: 21:24
THERE’S MORE: JESUS WILL COME BACK, BREAK THE CROSS,
It’s quite natural if Jesus hates Cross, because it’s used to humiliate and torture him.
KILL THE SWINE AND ABOLISH THE JIZIYAH. WHO ARE THE SWINE, NAJEEB? ARE THEY NOT THE CHRISTIANS?
These are blatant lies coming from the mouth of the enemies of truth, its nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, neither Quran nor Hadith called Christians SWINE, while refereeing about Christians and Jews Quran use the Arabic word “AHLAL KITHAB†(People to whom books revealed before) the Holy Quran teaches about the perfect equality of mankind, you can see several such verses in Quran.
O MANKIND! BE CAREFUL OF YOUR DUTY TO YOUR LORD WHO CREATED YOU FROM A SINGLE SOUL AND FROM IT CREATED ITS MATE AND FROM THEM TWAIN HATH SPREAD ABROAD A MULTITUDE OF MEN AND WOMEN. BE CAREFUL OF YOUR DUTY TOWARD ALLAH
(HOLY QURAN: 4: 1).
O MANKIND! LO! WE HAVE CREATED YOU MALE AND FEMALE, AND HAVE MADE `YOU NATIONS AND TRIBES THAT YE MAY KNOW ONE ANOTHER. LO! THE NOBLEST OF YOU, IN THE SIGHT OF ALLAH, IS THE BEST IN CONDUCT. (HOLY QURAN 49: 13).
“NO, YOU DON’T RESPECT ANYTHING. NOT MOSES, NOT JESUS, NOT ABRAHAM. YOU DON’T EVEN RESPECT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS, THE BASIS OF ALL ELIGION AND GUIDE FOR HUMANITY.â€
Again I am sorry to say that you know nothing about even the basics of Islam, during their five times prayer every Muslim in the world prays for Prophet Abraham and all the prophets who came after him, try to understand little bit about the annual Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, most of the rituals are related to Prophet Abraham, after all how somebody else can talk about my respect and disrespect since it’s a matter of my mental state.
JUST FOR THE RECORD: I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, SO YOUR WRITING ABOVE IS QUITE MEANINGLESS TO ME.
Jew or Christian is nothing more than a label, inside the label the content is the same, please don’t generalize this statement, I have utmost respect for all the majority of good Jews and Christians, definitely there are plenty of evil spirits who are indulged in misguiding people. I am replied to your contentions not to your religious title therefore my writings will remain relevant to you, whatever your religion is.
Regards
najeeb
Rubbish, Najeeb. All of it.
The Koran and the hadith revolves around Muhammad. (The Truth about Muhammad)
Muslims emulate Muhammad, who was the ‘perfect man: “We have indeed, in the Messenger of Allah, a good example (of conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day.” [Holy Qur’an 33: ayat 21]
Allah, or ‘Al-Ilha’ is the pagan moon-god of the ancient desert Arabs and one of the idols Muhammad didn’t destroy when he raided the Meccan’s and smashed the 360 idols of the kaaba.
With large numbers of Arabs/Muslims settling in the dar-al harb, in what they perceive to be behind enemy lines, it is inevitable that some -unsuspecting and ignorant- Western women marry Arabs or Muslims who deceive them. These encounters usually end in disaster.
If you think my writing is ‘irrelevant’ why do you bother to post here? This is an educational site. If you think its irrelevant you wouldn’t bother to defend the indefensible, or would you?
I won’t even respond to your useless denials of your own scriptures. In your prayers, you curse the infidels 17 times and wish for their demise. Nothing, nothing in Islam relates to Moses or Abraham. In fact, your Muhammad claimed he supersedes all of them that he is the one and only, that everything before him is null and void and even claimed that Jews and Christians falsified their holy scriptures because his name couldn’t be found in it.
Fact is: Muhammad was an impostor. A false prophet who used religion as an ideology to rape, rob, plunder, torture and enslave the Jews of 7th century Arabia. Your cult is an abomination, an insult to G-d the Almighty. How anyone can follow a belief-system that encourages men, women and children to terrorize, hate and kill unbelievers is beyond me.
Well, if 2 years of Islamic studies at Al Azhar in Cairo is not enough to make me a better (ex-)Muslim than you will ever be what is?
Dear Mr. Sheikyermami
When you say something against Islam you must quote an authentic Quranic verse or Hadith to support your contention, what you are doing is either giving the link of your own writings or same minded people’s, how it can it be relevant? By giving the below link you did the same thing again.
The Koran and the hadith revolves around Muhammad. (The Truth about Muhammad)
Muslims emulate Muhammad, who was the ‘perfect man: “We have indeed, in the Messenger of Allah, a good example (of conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day.†[Holy Qur’an 33: ayat 21]
VERILY IN THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH YE HAVE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR HIM WHO LOOKETH UNTO ALLAH AND THE LAST DAY, AND REMEMBERETH ALLAH MUCH. (QURAN: 33: 21)
The original meaning of 33: 21 I am pasted above, kindly let me know what’s wrong in it.
ALLAH, OR ‘AL-ILHA’ IS THE PAGAN MOON-GOD OF THE ANCIENT DESERT ARABS AND ONE OF THE IDOLS MUHAMMAD DIDN’T DESTROY WHEN HE RAIDED THE MECCAN’S AND SMASHED THE 360 IDOLS OF THE KAABA.
Even a 1st standard Madrasa student knows that the above statement is not true, Islam forbids the worship of anything other than Almighty Allah who is unseen and the creator of everything.
IT IS INEVITABLE THAT SOME -UNSUSPECTING AND IGNORANT- WESTERN WOMEN MARRY ARABS OR MUSLIMS WHO DECEIVE THEM. THESE ENCOUNTERS USUALLY END IN DISASTER.
When you says that the western woman are ready to sacrifice their own religion and culture or everything only to marry Arabs or Muslims you are insulting your own women, even if I agree your contention what you have to say about those males who are reverting.
I WON’T EVEN RESPOND TO YOUR USELESS DENIALS OF YOUR OWN SCRIPTURES. IN YOUR PRAYERS, YOU CURSE THE INFIDELS 17 TIMES AND WISH FOR THEIR DEMISE.
I am praying for the last 25 years, I know nothing about that, tell me exactly where these curse is coming, if you are truthful.
NOTHING, NOTHING IN ISLAM RELATES TO MOSES OR ABRAHAM.
Again I am sorry to say that you know nothing about even the basics of Islam, you says that you are a ex-Muslim then you should have prayed at least once in your life then you must know that Muslims will pray for all the prophets including Abraham, Moses and Jesus, while listening the name of Jesus a Christian will keep quite but talk to a learned Muslim upon hearing the name of the Jesus he will spontaneously pray for him.
IN FACT, YOUR MUHAMMAD CLAIMED HE SUPERSEDES ALL OF THEM THAT HE IS THE ONE AND ONLY, THAT EVERYTHING BEFORE HIM IS NULL AND VOID AND EVEN CLAIMED THAT JEWS AND CHRISTIANS FALSIFIED THEIR HOLY SCRIPTURES BECAUSE HIS NAME COULDN’T BE FOUND IN IT.
Prophet Mohammed himself explained about his mission he said, Quote: there is a beautiful home everything is perfectly in place and shape there is a shortage of just one brick and I am that last one brick. Unquote:
Prophet Mohammed did not said that Jews and Christians falsified their holy scriptures because his name couldn’t be found in it, there are plenty of references about Prophet Mohammed both in Old and New Testament.
WELL, IF 2 YEARS OF ISLAMIC STUDIES AT AL AZHAR IN CAIRO IS NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ME A BETTER (EX-) MUSLIM THAN YOU WILL EVER BE WHAT IS?
At last you make a shocking claim….. I am really sorry to say that your arguments did not gives any impression of a person with the basic understanding of Islam at all, forget about Al Azhar even a 2nd standard madrasa student will not dare to say “nothing, nothing in Islam relates to Moses or Abrahamâ€
Regards,
najeeb
Dear Najeeb,
that is what I’m doing. You need to do some close reading.
Everything, Najeeb. Everything.
Do you agree with slavery? Do you really believe that a mass-murdering serial rapist, torturer, terrorist, pedophile, wife-beating, a thief of unbelievers wealth is a “beautiful model of conduct?” Do you really believe that a mandate for genocide on Jews and Christians is “beautiful conduct?” Muhammad was as criminal, then and now, and no Islamic country can function in a civilized way since the only wealth Muslims ever “created” was the wealth stolen from the non-muslims they slaughtered, enslaved and drove out of their homes.
No so. There are far more references about Muhammad in the Koran than Allah. The sunna is almost entirely about Muhammad. If Muslims don’t worship Muhammad then why do they kill and die over some innocuous cartoons?
My dear Najeeb, when you curse Christians and Jews seventeen times a day in your prayers, “Al Fatihaâ€. Is this is what you call respect for our feelings, and mutual understanding? But by all means, give me your interpretation of “Al Fatiha”, I’m curious.
Fine. If you say so, it must be true. You asked for references. I can back my statements, now back yours.
About bricks and Muhammad: I couldn’t care less what Muhammad said about bricks. That’s between you and him.
Not one. Prove it if you can.
Please prove me wrong instead of belittling me. Again, quote evidence. Okay?
Najeeb,
The statements in the new testament and old testaments relating to the coming of a being who will bring the final message of G_D do not relate to mohammed. They simply relate to the being – whomever or whatever it is . That it is mo is YOUR muslim intepretation – you are welcome to it, just as others are equally welcome to reject it. The whole point of this web blog, which you and other muslims have not been able to understand, is to point out the inability of muslims to coexist with others. Discussions on the finer points of your faith are mostly irelevant within this context excepting in the circumstances with which the muslim faith is unable to grow sufficiently to coexist with other faiths. I don’t actually care if you prophet was a child molester – he is dead and gone and cannot directly hurt anybody now – I do however care when muslims use their religion as justification for violence.
Now – you have not understood much of what the Sheik wrote – one example
“ALLAH, OR ‘AL-ILHA’ IS THE PAGAN MOON-GOD OF THE ANCIENT DESERT ARABS AND ONE OF THE IDOLS MUHAMMAD DIDN’T DESTROY WHEN HE RAIDED THE MECCAN’S AND SMASHED THE 360 IDOLS OF THE KAABA.”
This is the ORIGINAL SOURCE OF THE NAME ALLAH – Sheik did not say that muslims worshipped idols – the above points out that the name of your god comes from others (if you are bright enough that will tell you something additional about your religion). The source of the name is correct as you will find if you cross reference historical texts dealing with the desert arabs prior to 570AD – 620 AD. Sheik may have had other points to make of which I am unaware because I have not read the full thread. However, from your reply implies that you have not understood.
If YOU wish to limit your thinking to that which is prescribed by your religion, then that is YOUR choice. Others are free to accept or reject that choice as they will. Most reject it it. As with most muslims your arguments are circular, and rely on a cornerstone which can neither be proved nor disproved – that is why arguments of faith usually have no resolution if differences are sufficiently great. Within this framework you can justify anything, without the need to offer any meaningful proof to support your statements – and this is precisely what your religious scholars do. The very minor contributions of muslims to world society over the last 600 years are largely due to the self imposition of this form of constrained thinking and the acceptance of bounds that have no justification what so ever . but that is your choice. I notice that many muslims have been asked to prove or justify their statements, but generally we do not receive an answer when this is requested. Accept the fact that many happily reject islam and do not feel any loss what so ever. And yes, they understand religion as well as you think you do. If you can accept that then we can all live in peace.
* Allah is neither the name of Muslim God nor the invention of
Mohammed but he is the creator and sustainer of everything who was
worshipped by Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and all the
Prophets (rest of blasphemy snipped)
Najeeb, it is the height of blasphemy to claim that Jesus Christ
worshipped “allah”, when Jesus Christ is God’s only begotten Son,
(“I and my father are one”). Jesus warned against false prophets
such as mohammed and false christs, who would appear anddeceive many.
Dear Mr. Kaw
THE STATEMENTS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT AND OLD TESTAMENTS RELATING TO THE COMING OF A BEING WHO WILL BRING THE FINAL MESSAGE OF G_D DO NOT RELATE TO MOHAMMED.
This we can discuss in detail, I am here not going anywhere. Regarding the other part of your posting, what I said is simple “give the authentic proof for your contention†when you says that “its in Quran or Hadith give the reference number, that’s all.
NOW – YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD MUCH OF WHAT THE SHEIK WROTE – ONE EXAMPLE
“ALLAH, OR ‘AL-ILHA’ IS THE PAGAN MOON-GOD OF THE ANCIENT DESERT ARABS AND ONE OF THE IDOLS MUHAMMAD DIDN’T DESTROY WHEN HE RAIDED THE MECCAN’S AND SMASHED THE 360 IDOLS OF THE KAABA.†THIS IS THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF THE NAME ALLAH – SHEIK DID NOT SAY THAT MUSLIMS WORSHIPPED IDOLS.
I understood exactly what he said, as I said before Allah is not the name of Muslim God, it is the Arabic word for God, Arab speaking non Muslims call their God Allah, even in Arabic translation of Bible the word “Allah†is used to refer about God.
As far as Islam is concerned 99 names have been given for God Allah is one of them others are such as Most Merciful, Most Beneficent, Creator, Almighty & Sustainer so on, in other word can use any unique and good name to refer about God, its not the name but what you mean when you say about God that’s matters. In Islam if you associate God with any living or death thing or idol its forbidden. When he said Prophet did not destroy the PAGAN MOON GOD ALLAH he was trying to give an impression that inside the KABA there was the idol of Allah and the Prophet allowed that to continue that. It was totally wrong.
Regards
najeeb
Dear Mr. Sheikyermami
EVERYTHING, NAJEEB. EVERYTHING. DO YOU AGREE WITH
SLAVERY? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT A MASS-MURDERING SERIAL RAPIST, TORTURER, TERRORIST, PEDOPHILE, WIFE-BEATING, A THIEF OF UNBELIEVERS WEALTH IS A “BEAUTIFUL MODEL OF CONDUCT?†DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT A MANDATE FOR GENOCIDE ON JEWS AND CHRISTIANS IS “BEAUTIFUL CONDUCT?†MUHAMMAD WAS AS CRIMINAL, THEN AND NOW, AND NO ISLAMIC COUNTRY CAN FUNCTION IN A CIVILIZED WAY SINCE THE ONLY WEALTH MUSLIMS EVER “CREATED†WAS THE WEALTH STOLEN FROM THE NON-MUSLIMS THEY SLAUGHTERED, ENSLAVED AND DROVE OUT OF THEIR HOMES.
When I said Quote: The original meaning of 33: 21 I am pasted above, kindly let me know what’s wrong in it. Unquote: you gave the above given fabricated story which is roaming around the Christian missionaries for centuries, what is the fact?
This aya 21st of the 33rd chapter of Holy Quran says to Muslims that VERILY IN THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH YE HAVE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR HIM WHO LOOKETH UNTO ALLAH AND THE LAST DAY, AND REMEMBERETH ALLAH MUCH.
This verse revealed to the prophet and he recited it to his disciples, the prophet was living among his disciples and they knew the prophet more than anybody else, if the Holy Prophet was a person such as you mentioned above he couldn’t have recited the verse to his disciples and they would have questioned him when he do so, you are making an allegation against the prophet which was unaware to the people who lived along with him. This verse proves how divine was the prophet’s character.
NO SO. THERE ARE FAR MORE REFERENCES ABOUT MUHAMMAD IN THE KORAN THAN ALLAH.
It’s not true, for your information Quran mentions the name of other prophets in more places than Prophet Mohammed.
THE SUNNA IS ALMOST ENTIRELY ABOUT MUHAMMAD.
NOT ALMOST…. ALL…. Sunnah or Hadith means the practice of the Prophet in the form of words and deeds; it’s the practical form of Quranic teachings. So inevitably it will refer about the Prophet more.
IF MUSLIMS DON’T WORSHIP MUHAMMAD THEN WHY DO THEY KILL AND DIE OVER SOME INNOCUOUS CARTOONS?
The Prophet prohibited the making of his pictures or images in any form to prevent people worshipping him, as same thing happened in the case of Jesus.
MY DEAR NAJEEB, WHEN YOU CURSE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS SEVENTEEN TIMES A DAY IN YOUR PRAYERS, “AL FATIHAâ€. IS THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL RESPECT FOR OUR FEELINGS, AND MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING? BUT BY ALL MEANS, GIVE ME YOUR INTERPRETATION OF “AL FATIHAâ€, I’M CURIOUS.
You alleged that Muslims cursing and pray for the death of Jews and Christians five times a day in their prayer, when I ask for proof you are asking me to comment? MY DEAR TELL ME EXACTLY IN PRAYER WHERE WE ARE PRAYING FOR THE DEATH OF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS.
YOU MUST KNOW THAT MUSLIMS WILL PRAY FOR ALL THE PROPHETS INCLUDING ABRAHAM, MOSES AND JESUS†FINE. IF YOU SAY SO, IT MUST BE TRUE. YOU ASKED FOR REFERENCES. I CAN BACK MY STATEMENTS, NOW BACK YOURS.
Definitely I can give the proof, it’s not a big deal my dear every Muslim with the preliminary knowledge about Islam can answer this.
On the five times pray everyday on the last ATHTHHIYAATH Muslims will pray for all the prophet it will start with Prophet Mohammed then Prophet Abraham then to all the prophets who came through that tribe, need not say that it will include Moses and Jesus.
Muslims have two festivals Eid Ul Fitr and Eid Ul Alha. Eid Ul Alha is the commemoration of Prophet Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son Ismail as per the will of Almighty God.
On the annual pilgrimage to Mecca 95% rituals are commemoration of Prophet Abraham and his family, such as the running by the pilgrims between the two mountains Safa and Marwa stoning the rock representing Satan so on.
ABOUT BRICKS AND MUHAMMAD: I COULDN’T CARE LESS WHAT MUHAMMAD SAID ABOUT BRICKS. THAT’S BETWEEN YOU AND HIM.
Your care and careless is not going to change anything except your life, whatever your believe and disbelief the world will remain the same, so all the best wishes for your carelessness. Its look like your destiny is confirmed (May Almighty God forgive me if what I said is wrong). I am writing this for those who genuinely interested to understand.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF REFERENCES ABOUT PROPHET MOHAMMED BOTH IN OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT. NOT ONE. PROVE IT IF YOU CAN.
We don’t have to mix up this here once we finish this we can discuss the above subject in detail and separately.
NOTHING, NOTHING IN ISLAM RELATES TO MOSES OR ABRAHAM, PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG INSTEAD OF BELITTLING ME. AGAIN, QUOTE EVIDENCE. OKAY?
I think this one I am already answered.
Regards
najeeb
Dear Najeeb, you offer no proof for anything, and so your statement above is absurd. Your way of thinking is what we call circular reasoning, based on “the Koran is the word of Allah because it says so in the Koran”. I have no use for such childish gibberish.
“This verse proves how divine was the prophet’s character”-not. Koran-verses prove nothing.
There is nothing in either the Christian or Jewish Bible about Muhammad, and Muslims don’t respect any religion other than Muhammad’s.
That’s a fact and the basis of your belief-system.
I regret you are a victim of a vile and archaic belief system. The only thing your writing proves is that Islam stifles mental growth.
Have nice day!
Hey man there was a link of this page on the home why you remove that, do you want prevent people from reading this? Let the people read and decide, why are you scared to face the people.
regards
najeeb
No link has been removed, Najeeb. If you think there’s something missing why don’t you post it again?
sorry, forget it, it was my mistake
najeeb3@gmail.com
Najeeb,
Your post is based on circular reasoning and you are wasting our time. You have also not understood what written in reply – this is clear from your replies to SY and myself. You are basically simply regurgitating what you believe as proof. Both the old testament and the new testament do not refer to your religion. Given that the only time the followers of your religion made the media is when an act of violence is committed (and that occurs quite often), you would do well to spend your energies convincing your co-religionists to live in peace with others.
Dear Mr. Sheikyermami
“DEAR NAJEEB, YOU OFFER NO PROOF FOR ANYTHING, AND SO YOUR STATEMENT ABOVE IS ABSURDâ€.
If you were a Muslim once you must have known about all these things, how can I give proof for what we are saying in our prayer? Either you can check about this with any Muslim near you or you can ask a question in this regard to any of the Islamic sites, regarding other rituals commemorating Prophet Abram, what proof you want try to understand the inspiration behind the celebration of Eid Ul Alha and the purpose of the rituals in the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, there are plenty of sources to understand this anybody can do that.
You are already reached in a conclusion about Islam and you are not going to satisfy until I agree with your view, that is the problem.
YOUR WAY OF THINKING IS WHAT WE CALL CIRCULAR REASONING, BASED ON “THE KORAN IS THE WORD OF ALLAH BECAUSE IT SAYS SO IN THE KORANâ€. I HAVE NO USE FOR SUCH CHILDISH GIBBERISH.
My friend then why you quote from Quran? If you don’t believe in it, when you ask a question with Quranic quotation I am replied on the same way
THERE IS NOTHING IN EITHER THE CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH BIBLE ABOUT MUHAMMAD, AND MUSLIMS DON’T RESPECT ANY RELIGION OTHER THAN MUHAMMAD’S.
As I said before we can discuss this subject it in detail, don’t mix it with this one, you said that Muslims curses the Christians and Jews and prays for their death in their everyday prayer, please give a slightest form of evidence for your allegation.
Regards.
Najeeb
Mr. Kaw
More than 1400 years back Holy Quran quite accurately predicted how some people will react to truth, I think three Quranic verses will be sufficient to reply to your question.
And they say: None entereth Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian. These are their own desires. Say: Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful.
(Holy Quran.2: 111)
And those who disbelieve will not cease to be in doubt thereof until the Hour come upon them unawares, or there come unto them the doom of a disastrous day.
(Holy Quran 22: 55)
So let them flounder (in their talk) and play until they meet the Day which they are promised.
(Holy Quran 43: 83)
najeeb3@gmail.com
Mr. Kaw
More than 1400 years back Holy Quran quite accurately predicted how some people will react to truth, I think three Quranic verses will be sufficient to reply to your question.
And they say: None entereth Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian. These are their own desires. Say: Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful.
(Holy Quran.2: 111)
And those who disbelieve will not cease to be in doubt thereof until the Hour come upon them unawares, or there come unto them the doom of a disastrous day.
(Holy Quran 22: 55)
So let them flounder (in their talk) and play until they meet the Day which they are promised.
(Holy Quran 43: 83)
regards
where are you my friend?
Najeeb,
First of all you are off topic and you have derailed this thread which is about Islamic female genital mutilation. If you wish to discuss Isa, the Muslim Jesus, you have to post here. There you can also find most, if not all of the answers to your questions above.
This makes me feel sick, what a sexist, cruel thing to do.
Najeeb,
Within the sentences you quote are contradictions which, in effect, invalidate them. It is amusing that you cannot see this. Also, the quotations are not related to the original comment, your inference that the pedophile mo was mentioned in the new and old testaments – it wasn’t. Don’t waste my time – use your time more profitably and try and understand what you parrot. You may then be of some benefit to your species.
And we’re supposed to cry over these nxxxxs?
Fucking religion…..
this is just sunna .. maybe yes .. or not
whatever .. we are just human dear
When I saw the fear and the pain on the face of a little girl… that’s breaks my heart. Please do something!
LOL… this is bullshit, you guys try so hard to put a bad image on us,
its actually really funny. if any one does even a LITTLE bit of research into this, they will find that FEMALE circumsision is HARAAm, which means not permissable.
your a joooke. LOL
When I think of my daughter, I give thanks to our Heavenly Father for having ensured that she was born in a civilized country. Because of this great blessing, she will be able to enjoy sexual pleasure as a normal, healthy woman.
Why do we continue to allow these awful people into our enlightened and tolerant countries?
As with EVERYTHING Shaykhyermami posts, a huge mess of
lies, missing or only partially-produced information intended to
demean Islam. 1. It is now ILLEGAL for doctors, or anyone else, to circumcise girls in Egypt under the newly amended Child Law. It is really irrelevant to post nonsense about Islamic law — in which there is a debate on FGM, and particularly its several forms which are not clearly differentiated on this site. But under the civil law in Egypt — all forms are illegal. The current govt. supports the law. 2. The nonsense about the Shafi’ school and incomplete information on Wikipedia is not an authoritative source on the subject. 3. The issue of FGM divides Muslims; they do not uniformly practice it and lots of people are involved in trying to wipe out this physically and psychologically-damaging custom. True, there is a lot of denial and the defenders keep
on saying it is a defense against the immoral behavior of the West. The truth is that it really is no such defense. Like many harmful practices — old and new — it has to go. Why don’t you support the Muslims trying to end FGM, Shaykhyermami?
Ahmad – the problem is the other half of the muslim community who believe in FGM and keep perpetrating it. The muslims who are trying to end this barbaric practise – as well as trying to bring their faith into the 22nd century – do get our support. There is much denial about a lot more than FMG in the muslim world – until that changes expect little else or worse.
assad,
it is not hard to give you morons a bad image. you do that very well yourselves. you don’t need any more help to make you look like the group of pathetic lying thugs that you are.
Mohammed did not tell us circumcise the woman
he said thes will be beter and lovable
as a muslim, a woman and an african this website offends, saddens and relates to me all in one. fgm has broken me i feel ruined and people who do this will get justice brought to them when the time comes.
as for all the muslim bashing, it cant be blamed when all you see from ‘muslims’ are backwards quotes of what they’ve grown up to believe what the prophet has said, if you feel fgm is bad read plenty more hadiths to see that this is no vision of what God ordained for us.
whats needed isnt more laws, theres no way of regulating this, whats needed is for muslims to educate themselves about their religion, and pick up the quran, for if you abandon here say and blasphemy from people who’ve attributed lies to our prophet, and stick to the word of God (Allah) alone, you can never go wrong.
for more information about lies in hadith and a justified reason to abandon it altogether check this link out and do some honest hard thinking. http://www.quran.org/library/articles/hconspiracy.htm
and as for the bloggers words
‘Islamic values or Australian? Frankly, the concept of “islamic values†is an affront to every person who calls himself Australian. ‘
maybe your concept of islamic views should be reconsidered, your issues with islam are really infact issues with sunnism and many other sects in islam and its scholars and shiekhs.
so unless australian values arnt of justice, kindness, peace, contemplation, ethics and so on i see no reason why someone cant call them self an australian and agree with islam
* this is no vision of what God ordained for us.
Precisely.
This is more in keeping with what God has ordained, and what allah and his false prophet deny and reject:
John 3:16 (New International Version)
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
if god/allah really didnt want the organ,he ultimately and wisely had removed the female organ……bullshit.
A good seed will grow into a good tree, with edible and sweet smelling fruits, while the bad one will grow into the bad tree of course. What I see here is one Muslim trying to defend his religion and another perhaps an atheist, or a Christian or a Jew maybe, trying to attack on the other religion. I see that the Muslim is holding on, refraining from making insult and accusation. The others are pressing for the kill, trying to undermine the other religion. Its the characteristic of people with false believe system to hurt others. Its evident enough, the seed of goodness and the seed of evil. You can judge it yourself.
Never forget your history how the seed of evil had produced these:
1. witch hunt and murders of innocent people through out europe
by the thousands
2. The elimination of the Amerindian and the South American Indians by the millions
3. The death of millions in the world war by the christian world
4. The destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the hundred of
thousand death
5. The Holocoust death by the millions
6. The millions death during the crusade
7. More and more millions through out the history
What kind of religion is this??? That had caused the murder of the mankind by the millions?? Millions! Millions! The destruction unprecendented!! These so call true religion, the bad seed that will produce the bad tree, the fruits so poisonous and bitter! They will be contend to close one eye and insult the others! If you have the sense, run away as fast as you can from this thing call christianity and judaism. Leave the world to them, the mankind will soon cease to exist.
SO MANY KILLING AND DEATHS IN THE CHRISTIAN WORLD. IF YOU HAVE THE SENSE, RUN, AS FAST AS YOU CAN FROM THE ‘THING’ CALLS CRISTIANITY and JUDAISM.
THE CHRISTIAN GOD ACTUALLY CALLS FOR THE KILLING OF SO MANY ‘CRIMINALS’ FOR SO MANY SO CALLED ‘CRIMES’.
BIBLE:
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests : (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches : You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals : (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers: (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions: (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy: (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Murder for Stupid Reason
Kill little boys (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
God Kills the Curious (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
Killed by a lion (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Killing the Good Samaritan (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)
Murdering Children
Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
God Will Kill Children (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Kill Men, Women, and Children (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
God Kills all the First Born of Egypt (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
Kill Old Men and Young Women. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
God Will Kill the Children of Sinners (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
Miscellaneous Murders
More of Samson’s Murders (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)
Peter Kills Two People (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)
Mass Murder
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: ‘I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.’ (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
You Have to Kill
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
The Danites Kill the Next Town (Joshua 19:47 NAB)
Kills Some More†(Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)
Promises More Killing (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
Destruction of Ai ….so the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. … For Joshua kept holding as the LORD had commanded Joshua.
Killing at Jericho
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)
A killing frenzy in the Christian world!!!
Ahhhh now they are giving excuses, pre christian and all. It is in the holy bible ( the christians and jews bibles ) where god command them the CHRISTIANS and JEWS to KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL………..Its a killing frenzy, really. There are no other books in this world of the Hindus, Buddhist, Muslims, Sikh that can compare to the abundance of killing, murder, mayhem, terrorism command by GOD in the bible, commited by the prophets and saints in the bible and those people closed their eyes on the attrocities that they have done in the name of religion and blame others shamelessly!
Iraq war casualties (inflicted by a christian name George Bush)
Documented: 100 000 Other estimate: 1,000,000
Afghanistan casualties ( inflicted by christians name George Bush and Obama)
Documented: 19 000
Bosnian and Croats (inflicted by christians Serb)
Documented: 100 000 Other estimate: 260 000
Hiroshima and Nagasaki (inflicted by christians)
Estimated: over 220 000, more deaths followed due to sickness
Death by Hitler and Nazi ( a roman catholic christian not an atheist as christians want us to believe)
Estimated: 11 millions to 17 millions including jews, ethnic poles, romani, soviets, gays…..etc etc..etc
Spanish conquest in the new world (christian spaniard )
David Barret: Conquistadors kill 15 million Amerindians
More killings by christians, westerners:
M. D. Aletheia, The Rationalist’s Manual (1897): 30,000,000 Mexicans and Peruvians were slaughtered.
David Barrett, World Christian Trends: Conquistadors killed 15,000,000 Amerindians
Coe, Snow and Benson, Atlas of Ancient America, number of indians slaughtered by christians
Peru: 8,500,000
Brazil: 1,000,000
America : 4,000,000
Rj Rummel estimates: Total dead among native Americans in colonial era: 49,500,000
Inquisition:
8,800 deaths by burning, 1478-1496
Rummel: 350,000 deaths overall estimated.
More deaths:
* 7,000,000 during the Saracen slaughters in Spain.
* 2,000,000 Saxons and Scandinavians lost their lives opposing the introduction of Christianity.
* 1,000,000 in the Holy Wars against the Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses, and Huguenots.
Crusades:
1098, Fall of Antioch: 100,000 Moslems massacred.
1099, Fall of Jerusalem: 70,000 Moslems massacred.
1099: Crusaders slaughter 40,000 inhabs of Jerusalem.
Richard the Lionhearted executes 3,000 Moslem POWs.
# Albigensian Crusade (1208-49)
* Rummel: 200,000 democides
* Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History: 1,000,000
* Max Dimont, Jews, God, and History: 1,000,000 Frenchmen suspected of being Albigensians slain
* Michael Newton, Holy Homicide (1998): 1,000,000
* Individual incidents:
o PGtH: 20,000 massacred in Beziers.
o Ellerbe:
+ Beziers: 20-100,000
+ St. Nazair: 12,000
+ Tolouse: 10,000
o Newton: 20-100,000 massacred in Beziers.
o Sumption, Albigensian Crusade (1978): 50,000]
o TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.
* Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.
* Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.
* Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon
* Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.
* 1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.
* David:
o 2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.
o 2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.
o 2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.
* 1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.
* 2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.
* 2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.
* 2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans
* TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Bible.
There are still more that I cannot hope to quote here, there are too many, in the millions and millions. My GOD what kind of religion is this that recklessly destroyed the human race, god’s creatures, indefinitely, indiscriminately? At the same time pointing their fingers towards others?
This is CHRISTIANITY and JUDAISM. Run away from them! They have with them books full of sickness and diseases.
[Reply]
Rather selective and taken out of contest Husler. I think you’ll find that islam is no 1 in killing and murder and has been for a long time. However while Christianity does not have a clean past it has developed into something better over time – islam however remains the same.
You are missing the point here kaw. The articles and comment cited above by many authors had only one common goal, to discredit this one Arabia-origined religion, based on the conception that this religion as you quoted “.. is no 1 in killing and murder and has been for a long time.” and the proponent of female genital mutilation.
Well thats that, its about “Islam” that is being bad instead of muslim. Based on my in depth study of religion, I’m yet to find prove that the Islamic book that is the Koran is promoting “Genital Mutilation”, “Genocide” or “Homicide”. Not a single author has forwarded any verse from the Koran regarding the female genital mutilation, so how come you are fast to blame Islam. I on the other hand had only shown the other prove of how bad the Christianity is in promoting violence, genocide and murder, based on the God command in the Bibles. Just because some ignorant fools hold fast the pre-Islam pagan tradition of female circumcision you’d brand the religion of Islam as being the source of such barbaric practice, is not fair at all. For readers information: There is no mention at all in the Koran about the requirement of female circumcision. If it is mandatory then the Koran would’ve command the muslim people so. The role of this man Mohammed is only to interprete the religious command. I believe, the motive of this man not to abolish the practice of those days was due to his reluctant to interfere with the common practice, as per his advice, “.. to trim, not to remove..”. Those that study this religion would know that for the muslim, the Koran has authority on everything, not Mohammed. So tell me, how do you come to the conclusion that Islam promotes female circumcision? I can easily say that Christianity and Judaism are bad since these 2 religion is promoting murder and genocide. It is their book for sure?
If you have the sense, runaway as fast as you can from the thing called Christianity and Judaism! Be a hindu or buddhist or shinto or muslim but no no no to Christianity and Judaism. By a bible and read it and see for yourself the abundance of murder, genocide, rape and plunder promoted by these religions. These religions had created the kind of people writing commnets above, so insulting and disrespectful of other people faith, blindly accusing others of this and that!
Mohammed of Islam is said to command: “Reduce the size of the clitoris but do not exceed the limit, for that is better for her health and is preferred by husbands”. It’s noteworthy that the Man saying “do not exceed the limit” means do not totally remove the clitoris. Contradictory to many assumption, female circumcision is not brought forth by the Islam, it exist prior to the arrival of Islam. The muslim Koran does not command it (i challenge you to show prove otherwise), Mohammed did not command it. Instead what this man ever did was to set limit to the common practice of the day. Again I challenge any one here to produce a saying of Mohammed commanding every muslim female to be circumcised! It would have been mandatory if Mohammed or the Koran had said that. At last it is as Mohammed had been reported to say: “You know better your worldly affair, for I am just a prophet” will be the basis for the Muslims reaction whenever they encounter something that is not commanded in the Koran or not clearly explained by Mohammed. Now tell me on what authority that you may come to the conclusion that this religion promotes genital circumcision? All of Mohammed sayings about female circumcision was relevant only to the practice of those days. Nah, just because some muslim practice it make Islam bad, wait until you read the whole of the Christian bibles, it will help you refine the meaning of the word ‘bad’. Murder is really commanded by God of the bibles and rape and genocide and plunder and so much nonsense. Buy a bible, any version, and read it yourself.
And kaw had said that Christianity has developed into something better these days, pah! Christianity today remains in the closet since the separation of state and religion. While still in the closet, it produces nothing but religious intolerance, gays, sexual diseases, pedophiles priest and monks, and men like Adolf Hitler, US President Truman, George Bush and many other sickness. You know why, there is nothing in the religion of Christianity to hold murderous, incestious, sexual perverts on check. You may do anything you like but if you die as a Christian, you will be saved. Pah! What religion?! This is one foolish nonsense that we have to live with until perhaps when God would send down another prophet from heaven to clean the world of this filth.
* You may do anything you like but if you die as a Christian, you will be saved. Pah! What religion?! This is one foolish nonsense …
It may seem to be foolish nonsense to you, Husler, and with good reason. The worst sinner that I normally see is the one that reflects in the mirror, but your eternal destiny depends on whether you choose God’s plan of salvation & eternal life through Jesus Christ’s atoning death and resurrection, or if you reject it (the default choice).
It is not necessary to “revert” to islam in order to remain under the curse of sin & death and hell – it is only necessary to be born once.
Sin pays a wage, and that wage is death. All of us deserve death for our sins, but the gift of eternal life is based not on our works of righteousness (or law-keeping), but on Jesus Christ’s fulfilling of the Law and His death to take the punishment for not fulfilling it. Law demands perfect obedience and compliance – any and all failures result in death and hell. This message is objectionable to some, and
foolish nonsense to others, like you.
As 1 Corinthians 1:22 to 24 makes clear:
“Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.”
Will you continue to reject the power and wisdom of God as
“foolish nonsense”, or will you come to Jesus Christ as saviour
and lord?
God is not going to send another prophet, but He is going to cleanse the world of its “filth”, on His terms, and in His time. Something imminent will be the gathering of largely islamic nations against Israel, with a view to destroying it, but it will be the invaders who are destroyed, and the Jews who have the task of locating the bodies and body parts of the dead and smelly jihadi invaders, to mark and bury them in order to cleanse the Holy Land.
(Ezekiel, the prophet of God – 38 and 39)
Psalm 83 is worth a look also – maybe you could check out Walid
Shoebat’s views on Psalm 83 and Islam, at therefinersfire.org/psalm_83
Huser,
I suggest that you read the Koran, properly, and then the New and Old Testaments – properly. Then, look in the newspapers and see who many crimes are motivated by the Quran and by the Bible (you can include the Old Testament if you wish), I can tell you which book will have the largest number of violent adherents – it will not be the new and old Testaments.
As for deviancy – ie sexual perversion etc – this is a human characteristic and a certain percentage of representatives of ALL religions suffer – your insinuation that bad behaviour is religion specific is incorrect – however only Islam has NO self correcting mechanisms and therefore islam represents a considerable danger. Now, the veiling of women is specifically mentioned in only one place in the Quran and it referes specifically to the wives of mohammed. Yet muslims have twisted islam to suit as a tool to project their own cultures so that they can claim that walking abound like a “dark shade” (yet there is specific meaning attached to the encapsulated words – in some cultures it means an evil spirit”) is required of islam – rubbish!! . This is why islam is so dangerous – there is no final authority for islamic law, and various hadiths and Suras bound to the Quran are interpreted in a way that serves a purpose or an end that is NOT necessarily for the common good. Under this framework female circumcision can be justified by many muslims – you have not realised that it is not what is written that is important, but how it is interpreted.
I can also remove the majority of your cases from the which purport to illustrate Christian violence – in the vast majority of the cases local and international politics were the driving forces and religion was a convenient tool. An example will suffice : the Albigensian crusades were essentially driven by the fear of Pope Innocent III that the Cathars represented a significant threat to the revenues of the church in South France. Religion was then bastardized to provide justification for the wholesale slaughter, probably highlighted by the massacre of the Beziers citizenry at the hands of Simon de Montforte and the papal legate Arnauld-Amaury, of the Cathar faith. These two “gentlemen” represent the some of the worst of the Christian faith. So the first crusade was basically a power grab for Southern France, and it was done in the same style that muslims are now using to subvert the west. Incidentally the principal scriptural difference between the church in Rome and the Cathars was in the interpretation of the term “poverty of Christ”. An example of how small minded many humans really are.
Although we have now taken the first steps in leaving our planet, our psychology is little different to those of the people who lived in Europe at about 1300 AD. Under this consideration, the Catholic faith has indeed mellowed and become more “righteous” in some sense. The same cannot be said for islam, and as I hinted earlier there is no mechanism which will enable islam to grow and develop – it remains a present danger and it must be seriously addressed soon.
Finally, all religions with the exception of islam attempt to provide an answer to those questions which we cannot answer. Since we cannot answer them, and to answer them is beyond our intellectual and technical capabilities at the present time, the questions are OPEN. How you then perceive a religion is then up to you – it is your interpretation and no one has the right to force you to accept some predefined model at the smallest level – there must always be freedom of expression in belief – and islam fails again here. The point here is that your damnation of the Christian faiths in the PRESENT times is more of a reflection on you.
Answering Mullah Lujabollah
Somebody claimed to be Christian. But strange, at the same time follow the teaching of the enemy of Jesus. And advocated the pagan doctrine of salvation through death and blood of Jesus.
Yes, you might be surprise if I say I am more a follower of Jesus than you are. You are ignorant of the fact that your religion is properly known as Pauline Chritian, the originator being St.Paul or Saul, the enemy of the Jesus. The verses you quoted are known to be originated from St. Paul or his followers and not of Jesus. St Paul contradicted Jesus teaching in everyway he could. He was at first the prosecutor of the Christians. He imprisoned and voted for death many of the early
christians. Suddenly he claimed to receive revelation from Jesus Christ himself. The enemy has changed tactic and you never
suspect. A little history:
After the demise of Jesus, the Jesusalem church was heady by James, the half brother of Jesus, not Paul. Paul who also belonged to this church, preached to the Gentiles, but of his own version of the religion which pleased not at all the Christian of Jerusalem. He was reported and summoned to the church there headed by James, Peter and John. Immediately following the council meeting, an incident occurred at Antioch which severed forever the ties between Paul and the Jerusalem church. The Jerusalem church, which consisted of Jesus’ brothers and the apostles who knew Jesus (such as Peter and John),
never accepted Paul as a “fellow apostle”. Indeed, they were intensely opposed to Paul’s mission and viewed Paul’s theology as heretical. By the fifth century CE, the true followers of the historical Jesus became just another footnote in Christian ecclesiastical history. The real story of Jesus ended with them. The other story, the one told by the “apostle” Paul, continues to this day. (Some facts to ponder: The early Christians never called themselve christians, instead they were known
as the Nazarene, Ebionites and followers of The Way.)
Jesus did not talk about the atonement and that this innovation came from Paul or Saul of Tarsus. It is to Paul that Christianity should trace its roots. The origins of Christianity as we know it came, not from Jesus, but from Paul. The leadership and importance of James, brother of Jesus, was suppressed by the developing Gentile Church. The original followers, the successor to James and the apostles of Jesus, were the Jewish Christians (called Nazarenes and Ebionites), who never preached of a heavenly divine Jesus. They fought Pauline Christianity to the end of their days. Judeo-Christian writings which express the views on Jesus formed around the apostles can be found in the Gospel of the Hebrews (coming from a Judeo-Christian community in Egypt), the Second Apocalypse of James, the Gospel of Thomas. Please note that all these writings were later to be classed as Apocrypha, i.e. they had to be concealed by the victorious Gentile Church which was born of Paul’s success. This Church made obvious excisions in the Gospel literature and retained only the four Canonic Gospels.
Paul is the most controversial figure in Christianity. He was considered to be a traitor to Jesus’s thought by the latter’s family and by the apostles who had stayed in Jerusalem in the circle around James. Paul created Christianity at the expense of those whom Jesus had gathered around him to spread his teachings. He had not known Jesus during his lifetime and he proved the legitimacy of his mission by declaring that Jesus, raised from the dead, had appeared to him on the road to Damascus. It is quite reasonable to ask what Christianity might have been without Paul and one could no doubt construct all sorts of hypotheses on this subject. As far as the Gospels are concerned however, it is almost certain that if this atmosphere of
struggle between these communities had not existed, we would not have had the writings we possess today. They appeared at a time of
fierce struggle between the two communities.
So, I say to you Mullah Lujabollah, I love Jesus with all my heart that I suspect this man called Paul who invented this Christianity bullshits! If you too love Jesus you would have investigate this man thoroughly than to accept his teaching blindly. Oh no, St Paul was an apostle of Jesus, a true follower of Jesus, the expounder of the religion, you would say. Pah! He contradicted Jesus in everyway he could:
Jesus said: “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets” Matthew 5:17-18
Paul said : “All who rely on works of the law are under a curse” Galatians 3:10
And Paul abolished most of the law including circumcision and sabath.
The teaching of Jesus: “You see that people are justified by what they do and not by faith alone” (James 2:24)
The teaching of Paul: “‘Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.’” first Acts 16:25-34
Matthew 19:16-22:
Then someone came to him (Jesus) and said, ‘Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?’ And he said to him, ‘Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ He said to him, ‘Which ones?’ And Jesus said, ‘You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honour your father and mother; also, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ The young man said to him, ‘I have kept all these; what do I still lack?’ Jesus said to him, ‘If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’ When the young man heard this word, he went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
So shall I listen to you to achieve salvation through blood and death of Christ or shall I follow the through teaching of Jesus, that salvation is obtainable through good deeds? I don’t know you but I know Paul and I know Jesus and its such a simple decision to make knowing the history. So you are the follower of Jesus, eh? I think not, you are the follower of St. Paul an enemy of Jesus that advocated atonement, the sacrifice of Jesus for salvation of mankind.
First and last warning to Husler Kruger:
This post is about FGM. You either stay on topic or all your posts will be summarily deleted.
Opps sorry about that sheik. Reading all these articles about Islam and Christian really got me carried away. The enmity…
But I stand on my ground after saying all these that just because the custom was practiced during the day of the man Mohammed, it means that Islam practice FGM. What is most important is Mohammed didn’t make it mandatory like the male circumcision nor does the Koran, infact it is not even mentioned in the book. The mufti or the Islamic scholar shall not be above the Koran in interpreting the law. No, Islam does not advocates such barbaric practice. Except for male circumcision, this religion prohibit the mutilation of the body. Period. Any muslim who read your article would be contempt, so your motive is suspect. To the scholars, this article really reflect the ignorance of the author on the subject of Islamic law and the custom of the Arab people. Or perhaps was it your motive to undermine Mohammed and this Arab religion by applying such reasoning to relate this practice and the saying of Mohammed and blatantly blame Islam for such practice?
Husler,
It is not what is written, it is how it is interpreted. Formally speaking the hijab is also not part of islam – however it is conveniently interpreted as such – and women ARE killed for not following this “islamic cultural” norm. And finally, there is NO final authority on islamic law – this means that it is possible for two groups of muslims lead by opposing “scholars” [here the term scholar is used in a weak sense] to fervently believe diametrically opposed point of view – a symptom of no thought actually. FGM is supported by many muslims on religious grounds – islam is NOT blame free wrt the issue of FGM.
Yes I agree with kaw on this. The Muslims are really stupid and emotional. Whatever they do the base their action on Islam. When they wear the Hijab they say that its Islamic. When they blow themselve up they say that its Islamic, I’ve read somewhere in the book that says God prohibit suicide: “O you who believe! Do not consume your wealth in the wrong way-rather through trade mutually agreed to, and do not kill yourselves. Surely God is Merciful toward you.” (4:29). When they kill their spouse or daughter they say that its Islamic. Many of the Muslims are ignorant fool but I still say that Islam is not to blame for these illiterate fools action.
mohammad mentioned in bible song of solomen 5: 16
read the original hebrew” MOHAMMADIM”
MOHAMMAD I IM
NAME I Plural of respect in hebrew
so he is mentioned by name but in english is conveniently “translated as the most loved one” Please read the bible before you read the quran
No, Muhammad is not mentioned in the Bible.
Some claim that Song of Solomon 5:16 mentions Muhammad by name but this is merely a myth spread by Islamic propagandists Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik.
The claim is that the phrase “altogether lovely” means Muhammad. The source of this claim is a false Latinised translation of the Hebrew, “חִכֹּו֙ ×žÖ·Ö½×žÖ°×ªÖ·×§Ö´Ö¼Ö”×™× ×•Ö°×›Ö»×œÖ¹Ö¼Ö–×• ×žÖ·×—Ö²×žÖ·×“Ö´Ö¼Ö‘×™× ×–Ö¶Ö¤×” דֹודִי֙ וְזֶ֣ה רֵעִ֔י ×‘Ö°Ö¼× Ö¹Ö–×•×ª יְרוּשָ×לִָֽ×׃”. The word “machmad”(pronounced Makh Mawd) meaning – “delightful; hence, a delight, i.e. object of affection or desire — beloved, desire, goodly, lovely, pleasant (thing)”. Naik/Deedat/et al claims the above to be ‘Muhammad’ however this is incorrect from all examinations of the word and seems to have spread from his own inventive translation. (NB. Naik does not understand Hebrew).
Regarding the claim that Deut 33:2 is referring to the conquest of Mecca is another incorrect false and farfetched claim. Within the context of the chapter no such reference is made to the alleged events of the conquest of Mecca.
Isaiah 29:12 also does not mention Muhammad by name or description. As part of a juxtaposition metaphor and literate and illiterate man are compared and the verse in no way or form states that Muhammad in any figurative or literal sense would receive a revelation. This is another verse intentionally removed from a context to make a claim it does not. Daniel 12 for example takes note of these words in context.
Deuteronomy 18:18 states that the prophet will be from the Israelite people and not the Arabs and thus the prophecy does not speak of Muhammad. This is directly in conflict to the interpretation made by Dr Naik where he claims that coming from among the Israelites does not mean coming from among the Israelites which itself is a clear contradiction.
In conclusion, the claims of Muhammad’s reference in the Bible is merely unscholarly propaganda spread by Islamic propagandists and those wanting to proselytize deceptively.
More
I shall remind you, Muhammad, that you are off topic (this is about FGM, not about the Islamic prophet pretender) and your claim is irrelevant to this thread. If you wish to discuss Muhammad, please find a thread that does discuss your false prophet. If you keep trying to derail the subject matter you will be banned from this site.
No Muhammed,
The perverted prophet is not mentioned in the Bible. I wish you people could stop trying to reinvent history so that you might win an argument. PLEASE UNDERSTAND BIBLE BEFORE COMMENTING ON IT. Silly muslim fool.
I wish to remind kaw to mind your language! Who do you call a pervert? Why, are you so good enough to degrade others? I’ve never came across anybody who’d call Jesus, or Buddha or Krishna or Moses a pervert or anything! Why are you so hateful?! Has this prophet done anything to you?! He came to the Arabs and brought them together into a nation, to them he is a great man, a prophet, a leader. Who are you anyway? An uneducated ignorant fool like most of these people too? If you can’t keep your manners and participate in a healthy discussion, I say just get lost! Don’t do onto others what you won’t want others to do onto you, does that seem familiar to you? Many of the Muslims are bad, but Mohammed has done a great job for the benefit of the wary, stone worshiping Arab world. Be mindful.
Husler,
When islam actually behaves as a religion of peace I will apologise. Until then, since a significant number of muslims believe that murderering non-muslims is justified in the Quran, that raping of non-muslim women and slavery is justified in the Quran, that sex with children is allowed under the Quran eetc etc, I will continue to consider mohammed as nothing more that a violent arab tribeman who has nothing very useful to say. And no – he has NOT done a good job for arabs – the majority of arabs and muslims are not able to think for themselves outside the bounds set for them by the Quran and by the interpretations of the Quran. I do not call that a good job – unless your usage of the term involves a meaning of the adjective “great” that I am not aware of. Almost all muslim invention was stolen, even during the pinnacle of their achievements. The statement that muslims co-existed peacefully with others over recorded history is also false – they have never coexisted peacefully with others. Islam has only ever been spread by the sword and by indoctrination – even now more wish to leave than join. You should call a spade a space and forget about multicultural PC gush – islam is evel – it is evil principally because the pervert constructed it so that primitive superstitous people (muslims) are not empowered to change it. Word from G_D ? RUBBISH!! I do not dare speak for G_D, but an omnipotent being that creates a group of sniveeling whining cowards eager to kill for every slight against their understanding of G_Ds message would by rather dissapointing to the omnipotent being.
Husler,
Don’t waste my time with this PC rubbish. When islam actually behaves as a religion of peace I will apologise. Until then, since a significant number of muslims believe that murderering non-muslims is justified in the Quran, that raping of non-muslim women and slavery is justified in the Quran, that sex with children is allowed under the Quran etc, etc, I will continue to consider mohammed as nothing more that a violent arab tribesman who has nothing very useful to say. And no – he has NOT done a good job for arabs – the majority of arabs and muslims are not able to think for themselves outside the bounds set for them by the Quran and by the various interpretations of the Quran set down for them. I do not call that a good job – unless your usage of the adjective “great” involves a meaning that I am not aware of. Almost all muslim invention was stolen, even during the pinnacle of their achievements (more of a molehill actually) . The statement that muslims co-existed peacefully with others over recorded history is also false – they have never coexisted peacefully with others. Islam has only ever been spread by the sword and by indoctrination – even now more wish to leave than join. Muslims are imprisoned by islam but they cannot realise it – very dark humour indeed. You should call a spade a space and forget about multicultural PC gush – islam is evil – it is evil principally because mo constructed it so that primitive superstitious people were not empowered to change it as they developed. The Quran has no relevance in today society whatsoever – oh you can find pieces that are quite agreeable, but the entire form and direction of this book has no place in an enlightened society. Word from G_D ? RUBBISH!! I do not dare speak for G_D, but an omnipotent being that observes a group of snivelling whining cowards eager to kill for every slight against their limited understanding of G_D’s message would probably be a disappointment to that omnipotent being. Islam has not been hijacked – you have just not understood it, and it is behaving exactly as it was designed to do. If you wish to close your eyes and defend this dangerous monolith this is your choice. However, I see significant problems with it and I will not treat it kindly or with respect – it has not shown that it deserves any. As for mohammed – a violent and viscous arab tribesman – nothing more – nothing less. And you wish to stand up for its “honor” – your choice – not mine. And what is insulting you Husler, the fact that I called the muslim a silly fool, or that I called his prophet a pervert. Both statements appears to be true so your problem is….? When you have something useful to say please share it – until then think first and save some bandwidth. There is also a good reason why mohammed is abused and other significant religious figures are usually respected today – you can work that out for yourself. This also has something to do with your statement that many of the muslims are bad. Perhaps you might like to stand up for the Christians who are being raped and murdered in Pakistan, Nigeria, Phillipines, Afghanistan, Iran, Lebanon, etc, etc , before trying to protect an odious historical character whose influence has mostly been unpleasant and unproductive.
Not entirely off topic – 4 dangerous muslims crims stage helicopter break out from jail in Belgium. Escape funded almost certainly by muss criminals.
read all about it – some more action from the ROP gauranteed to make you feel safe at home.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/08/02/belgium.fugitives.helicopter.escape/index.html
It is an evil practice, done in the name of muslim pedophiles like your gods and prophets. A pity they dont practice it around the neck first, that would stop them breeding completely, hopefully.
subhanallah,,,,,,i am indonesian..islam is rahmatal lill alamin . circumcision is not have to for woman but only Sunnah/suposse to. so every woman can chosse it an no pussed by islamic religion…..
Mohammed,
This is NOT the interpretation of a significant number of your co-religionists.
FGM IS MERELY CULTURAL! YOUR FACTS ARE MERELY IGNORANCE! DNT DEFINE ISLAM BY THE IGNORANCE OF PEOPLE SOLELY 2 DEMEAN IT!! THERE ARE TYPES OF FGM. THERE IS ONE THAT IS OK TO DO SO, IN WHICH THERE ARE HADITHS. THOUGH SCHOLARS FIND IT TO BE WEAK HADITH! TO THE MUSLIMS BROTHERS AND SISTERS, FOLLOW ONLY AUTHENTIC WAYS OF THE PROPHET SAW AND TH QURAN! DO NOT ARGUE WITH THESE DISBELIEVERS WHO TEND TO DEMEAN AND ABOLISH US! THEY PLOT?! BUT ALLAH SWT IS THE BEST OF PLANNER AND ONLY HE KNOWS BEST!
“THE WORLD IS A PARADISE FOR THE NON BELIEVER AND A PRISON FOR THE BELIEVERS”
PROPHET MUHAMMAD!
ALLAHU AKBAR!
!!NEVER DEFINE ISLAM BY THE IGNORANCE OF ONE/OTHERS!!!
thinkb4uspeak,
You should practice what you preach – and think before you speak (assuming that you can). islam is the common denominator and it IS the problem. And allah knows NOTHING!!! It is a figment of a perverted arab tribesman mind (or what passed for a mind) that allowed an arab shit called mohammed to rape, murder, pillage and to consolidate HIS power base. islam IS ignorance, islam is stupidity and you have just demonstrated this again. Thank you.
Hey this is bull shitt..Icant see this ..Too much..How can u do this to girls u are in saim :@:@:@:@:@… Got blesed u this is unforgiven..I hate it..All people hate uu …….
* BUT ALLAH SWT IS THE BEST OF PLANNER
He certainly is, as one of satan’s sockpuppets, but his time will end:
“The great dragon was hurled down–that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.” Revelation 12:9
How will it end for you, thinkb4uspeak? Will you stick with satan / allah?
If you go to the professional FGM monitoring website you will note that it tracks almost all of it to tribal cultural practices mostly based in sub-saharan Africa. That it is not religious.
You will also find that any references to FGM or the like are not in the Qur’an and in haddiths that are disputed and written by “men” way after the death of the Prophet. It is also those same “men” that claim that their haddiths are proscribed. When societies trade and conquer they bring their culture and “man” always claims their cultural practices represent their faith.
FGM in the regions that practice it are also done by Christians and Animists and is simply another barbaric sexist method of controlling women and the article in question above is just a well written and well planned propoganda item by agenda based anti-Islam groups and nothing more. Because it is written well does not mean it is accurate.
Solkhar, you crack me up and you creep me out.
Did you read the headline of this article?
What does it say?
It says: “female genital mutilation is part of the sunna of the prophet”- and that’s what most Mohammedans will tell you, from Egypt to Indonesia and from Saudi Arabia to Amsterdam.
Now you, Solkhar, fired up by your religious obsession to ‘defend Islam’- you are telling us its all not true?
Why should we care for your nonsense?
Islam is what Muslims do. Take it up with them! Why not? Go and tell sheikh Yusuf al Qaradawi or the good folks at Al Azahr university in Cairo that clit-cutting is un-Islamic. Please!
Why coming here to an obscure website that seeks to educate unsuspecting, naive infidels about the evils of Islam?
Why do you think you are doing what you are doing to serve whom?
Interesting confession about your “obscure bebsite”.
The subject is clear, your rant about what most “Mohammedans will tell you” makes it clear, perhaps they will, most “Muslims” will tell you otherwise. Note the spelling and the assumption that whom you are referring to represents most adherents to Islam. So if the practice is followed and demanded then why in those very same countries it is illegal? But then, like on the other thread, you will accuse and spout BS and when your error is shown you ‘no longer care’, just ignore it or use that pathetic “taqiyya escape clase” that almost every Muslim does not know or is aware of.
FGM is not in the Qur’an and is a tribal habit. I have also noticed that you and your article makes no reference to its existance in the Christian and animist world as well, that the elders of those communities will also foolishly/ignorantly inist it is justified.
The entire point is that this is just agenda-based crap and instead of finding solutions and working with moderates to clearly identify the real issues and to target the real dangers amongs radical and militant Muslims, you have chosen to attack the entire faith and thus misdirect the real battle and if anything help the radicals and militants by proving their argument that “you are all radical right-wingers on some Crusde to wipe out Islam and that it was you guys in the first place that started the war”. So thanks very much for f*ck*ng it up for all of us, yourselves included.
Solkhar, your lies are noted and rejected.
Islam is the cult of Mohammed and those who follow him are Mohammed worshipers, (Mohammedans). “Muslims” is an euphemism we must reject. Your co-religionists are obsessed with imitating your ‘perfect man’ who was by any standard a criminal and a mass murderer. Anyone who has his heart and mind in the right place must reject his behavior, along with polygamy, misogyny and pedophilia, all of which your prophet practiced with impunity, and many (if not most) of his believers engage in even today.
FGM is by no means illegal in Islamic countries, and claims by Islamic religious leaders to the contrary are simply lies for Western consumption. (Or has anybody ever been convicted in a Mohammedan country for having his daughters clit cut out?) The reality is also, that in places like Egypt some 97% of women are genitally mutilated, in Somalia even more severely. In Yemen too. These people do it because they believe it is the “Sunnah of the prophet”, and your argument that its “not in the Koran” is useless and a detraction. The article is about what Mohammedans believe and what they practice. Take it up with them! Why bother with us? If you believe its illegal and bad you should use your energies to prove to these people that they are wrong, not waste your time here with unbelievers who oppose your cult, to convince them of what exactly? That we are wrong?
FGM is not tribal because its spreading in countries like Indonesia, (a former Buddhist and Hindu country) that is now Islamic and follows “the sunna of the prophet”) There are no Christians who practice FGM. If you should know of any they are most certainly not following their scriptures. I don’t give a rats ass about some African tribes who practice it because its as irrelevant as the claim that there is “only a tiny minority of extremists” who blow themselves up because they misunderstand their peaceful religion. It is not our business to look for “moderate” killers and sort them from them who will kill us tomorrow. Is suicide bombing “un-Islamic?” The question itself is an absurdity, because the suicide bombers certainly think so and I have no intention to sort them out. But go right ahead and tell me “its not in the Koran”- as if it mattered. (9:111 comes to mind) Islam is simply what Mohammedans do, not what they say. According to Muhammad, Koran and sunnah, no peaceful coexistence between Muslims and unbelievers is possible: the unbeliever is to be deceived, conquered, must pay the jiziya with willing submission while feeling utterly subdued and humiliated and eventually killed to please Allah (from Al-Ilha, the pagan moongod of the ancient desert Arabs, Muhammads reinvention)
This is the tried and well established pattern throughout the centuries, and we can see it every day from Egypt to Pakistan, from Bangladesh to Nigeria, from Somalia to Kashmir and from Iraq to wherever Islam and the jihad claims its victims. I am well aware of your agenda as a detractor, and your claim that “instead of finding solutions and working with moderates to clearly identify the real issues and to target the real dangers amongs radical and militant Muslims, you have chosen to attack the entire faith and thus misdirect the real battle and if anything help the radicals and militants by proving their argument” is laughable and pathetic.
What are the “real issues” Solkhar? Israel? The “root causes?” What are your “solutions?” Killing the Jews as mandated in the hadith? What is your real concern other than spreading Islam and removing obstacles to the spread of Islam?
Resistance to the spread of your cult is a duty, a sacred duty because our law, our civilization and our culture (with all its flaws) is infinitely better than your cult.
That’s what this website is all about, and if that f*kcs things up for you it does what it should, don’t you think?
As for what Islam really wants, I really do enjoy hearing it from the camels mouth. This guy is one of my favorites. How would you like to prove him wrong?
Solkhar,
Again you illustrate a reduced level of comprehension. The point is not that FMG is written or not written in the quran – the point is that the quran is interpreted to justify FMG. GOT IT??????? Probably not.
Interesting if you actually look into the fact, when that particular leader from Al-Azhar said it should be done, the Mufti of Egypt declared it prohibited a month later – officially.
“2007-JUN-24: the Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gum’s announced that: “… this custom is prohibited.”
We can see why, because the year before it was discussed and decided as a joint decision including the actual Grand Sheik of Al-Azhar, see below:
2006 international conference:
TARGET, a German human rights group, sponsored a conference on FGM in Cairo, Egypt. Muslim scholars from many nations attended. At the conclusion of the conference on 2006-NOV-24, their final statement declared FGM to be contrary to Islam, an attack on women, and a practice that should be criminalized:
“The conference appeals to all Muslims to stop practicing this habit, according to Islam’s teachings which prohibit inflicting harm on any human being. … The conference reminds all teaching and media institutions of their role to explain to the people the harmful effects of this habit in order to eliminate it. … The conference calls on judicial institutions to issue laws that prohibit and criminalize this habit … which appeared in several societies and was adopted by some Muslims although it is not sanctioned by the Qur’an or the Sunna.”
According to The Age online news source:
“Egypt’s two top Islamic clerics, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, the Grand Sheik of Al-Azhar, the foremost theological institute in the Sunni Muslim world, and Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, attended the conference, which drew scholars from as far afield as Russia. Tantawi’s and Gomaa’s edicts are considered binding.
There is much more on the topic, pretty much making it clear that the assumption of this article that it is Sunnah goes like this:
When the interviewer pressured the mufti by asking specifically whether Islam prohibits or permits FGM, Ali Gum’a replied:
“This issue, with these characteristics, in our times – is prohibited. If they want to know what the Mufti of Egypt has to say. I say this custom is prohibited.”
Mohamed Sayyed Tantawi, the Grand Sheikh of Cairo’s al-Azhar mosque, has repeated his assertion that the practice as un-Islamic. However, some other Muslim clerics have supported FGM.
UNICEF reports that:
“… Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practiced.” 8
Coptic Pope Shenouda, the leader of Egypt’s minority Christian community, said that neither the Koran nor the Bible demand or mention female circumcision. 9
Su’ad Saleh of Al-Azhar University commented:
“After the [statement by the Mufti] there is nothing left for me to say. This is what I have been demanding from the Mufti and the religious scholars – a categorical ruling on such issues. But when some of them say that this is permitted ‘when necessary,’ and if a doctor performs it … It was a doctor who did this, and look at the result … Society as a whole is responsible for the death of this girl. This is tantamount to the custom of burying girls alive, before the advent of Islam. It is like the burying the girl in the physical and psychological sense.”
But I wonder if the response to my posting now will be “so what?” or “this is taqiyya” or some other excuse. My guess is avoidance altogether now that the reality is clear. Man Muslims still continue doing so and it is either because they are radicals and thus strive to use primative tribal barbarity to ensure their control over followers or they simply do not know better. Either way, right-wing radical propoganda will not help as they will redirect their efforts to the entire faith of 1.6 billion people instead of trying to suppor the efforts of the governments and moderates.
Whether FGM is in the Quran or not is irrelevant – the Quran is used to justify it. That is the problem. And muslims are f*** it up for everyone – we are now just starting to react. And a big problem are muslims who refuse to accept that muslim are the problem. THANK YOU!!!
And as for a war Solkhar – when it starts you will know – and muslims would have started it.
It is interesting how quickly one looks at the article above that it is only an agenda-based propoganda excercise and a very poor example of what would be fair journalistic reporting.
Al-Munji declared on 10 May 2007 that it is Sunnah. He is only one of many clerics of Al-Azhar and a known radical.
What the report did not say was that a month later on 14 June 2007 (a month later) the Grand-Mufti of Egypt, Ali Goum announced that: “… this custom is prohibited”.
Al-Munji arleady had knowledge of this edict by the Mufti and in fact by his boss Mohammed Sayed Tantawi the Shiek of Al-Azhar. It was made clear at a 2006 international conference:
“TARGET, a German human rights group, sponsored a conference on FGM in Cairo, Egypt. Muslim scholars from many nations attended. At the conclusion of the conference on 2006-NOV-24, their final statement declared FGM to be contrary to Islam, an attack on women, and a practice that should be criminalized:
“The conference appeals to all Muslims to stop practicing this habit, according to Islam’s teachings which prohibit inflicting harm on any human being. … The conference reminds all teaching and media institutions of their role to explain to the people the harmful effects of this habit in order to eliminate it. … The conference calls on judicial institutions to issue laws that prohibit and criminalize this habit … which appeared in several societies and was adopted by some Muslims although it is not sanctioned by the Qur’an or the Sunna.”
According to The Age online news source:
“Egypt’s two top Islamic clerics, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, the Grand Sheik of Al-Azhar, the foremost theological institute in the Sunni Muslim world, and Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, attended the conference, which drew scholars from as far afield as Russia. Tantawi’s and Gomaa’s edicts are considered binding.
So thus the truth comes out.
No doubt that radicals will say otherwise and right-wing western agenda-based groups will play on it, that is the nature of the “game” they wish to play – or should I say playing and feeding off each other.
FGM is a tribal custom and as been confirmed not Islamic or Sunnah. Radicals and extremists like to use tribal customs and claim otherwise as it gives more control over the undeducated parts of their population, such as the use of the Burqa and locking away the females out of sight, mind, without education or participation in life.
Now we wait for the blog-owner to say “so what” or somehow claim that I am distracting from the great crime and reality that it is still occuring, which of course I am not. I condemn the act completely and I have a doctor-wife at an international hospital whom will contact local police everytime a sub-saharan African young female is admitted with complications.
http://solkhar.blogspot.com/2009/08/fgm-and-right-wing-agenda-profitting.html
This explains it better…
Solkhar
“What are the “real issues†Solkhar? Israel? The “root causes?†What are your “solutions?†Killing the Jews as mandated in the hadith? What is your real concern other than spreading Islam and removing obstacles to the spread of Islam?”
The real issues is Radicalism and how it should be battled. Radical and extreme Islam as well as radical and extreme “any religion” and radical and extreme Right or Left in politics. Right now for example the radical and extreme Islamists are a serious danger to everyone and should be battled and the problem is that their amunition to gather support amongst conservative Muslims is often the real evidence of the hate and lies of agenda based radical and extremist far-right in the west.
Israel is an Arab political issue and radicals have hijacked it. Israelis holiday here in Morocco and in my city of Marrakech.
Jews? Again it is the radicals, moderate Muslims will remind any who ask that Jews and Christians are People of the Book and they both can live side by side with Muslims with no problem, except for these radicals.
Killing Jews is mandated in the haddiths? Which one, there are so many and they are followed by radicals mostly, why do most Muslim countries not have a shoot on sight order then ? That is why your argument is rubbish, no Muslim country demands it, because those so-called haddiths are ignored as they should be.
As for the spread of Islam, it should only be spread by example and frankly speaking as long as the Muslim world sits on its behind and does nothing, I am suprised that there are converts at all. Conversion by force is for my part haram and it does not demand that in the Qur’an as well.
Statements by Muslim clerics for Western consumption are worthless. I have the statement you mentioned here, Solkhar, and I’m unimpressed. In another report from AP Tantawi lies and denies: “In Islam, circumcision is for men only,” he told the conference. “From a religious point of view, I don’t find anything that says that circumcision is a must [for women].
In Egypt, there is no law that specifically bans the practice, and nobody has ever been prosecuted for it.
One of the four Sunni schools of religious law, the Shafi`i school, rules that trimming of the clitoral hood is mandatory.[66] Sheikh Faraz Rabbani states, “That which is wajib [obligatory] in the Shafi`i texts is merely slight ‘trimming’ of the tip of the clitoral hood – prepuce.” Contrary to the WHO definition, he states that this practice is not “FGM, nor harmful to the woman or her ability to derive sexual pleasure.” He states that “excision, FGM, or other harmful practices” are not permitted.[67] In 1994, Egyptian Mufti Sheikh Jad Al-Hâqq argued that the procedure may not be banned simply on grounds of improper use.[68] Al-Azhar University in Cairo had issued several fatwas endorsing FGC, in 1949, 1951 and 1981, but then over ruled these with a more recent fatwa totally banning the practice, as it goes against the principles and teachings of Islam.[69]
But is doesn’t, because Muhammad said “don’t cut too deep”- which sanctions it and that’s why they do it.
But I’m not going to waste any more time with you, Solkhar. Take it up with your co-religionists, we don’t need your denials. Fact is, Mohammedans do it around the world because its “the sunnah of the prophet”- just like suicide bombers blow themselves up for the sake of Allah to get their 72 virgins and the 24 boyz. How will you convince them otherwise? And of course, honor killings are also totally un-Islamic, but never condemmed by Mohammedans because its perfectly okay to restore the families “honor”. (spit)
BTW: What is the police to do when your wife reports a “sub-saharan African young female with complications?” Are they going to restore her mutilated clit?
Just curious!
PS: here is sheik Qaradawi’s fatwa on FGM:
However, the most moderate opinion and the most likely one to be correct is in favor of practicing circumcision in the moderate Islamic way indicated in some of the Prophet’s hadiths – even though such hadiths are not confirmed to be authentic. It is reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to a midwife: “Reduce the size of the clitoris but do not exceed the limit, for that is better for her health and is preferred by husbands”. The hadith indicates that circumcision is better for a woman’s health and it enhances her conjugal relation with her husband. It’s noteworthy that the Prophet’s saying “do not exceed the limit” means do not totally remove the clitoris.
We have other Mohammedans defend the practice here:
We got mail: a Muslim poster praises Female Genital Mutilation as “yet another gift Islam gave to women like many others during Europe’s Dark Agesâ€
…and Australia’s mufti, sheik Fehmi, is very much in favor of the practice too, although he is widely reported to be a “moderate:”
LOL! So now we have a “war against radicalism?”
Solkhar, you are barking up the wrong tree. Sort it out with your fellow Mohammedans!
As you can see here, those who understand the Koran correctly cannot be cured:
Psychiatrists cannot undo Taliban brainwashing
* Would-be suicide bomber still considers suicide attacks best way to tackle any person who becomes hurdle in implementing sharia
Sollkhar sez:
“Killing Jews is mandated in the haddiths? Which one, there are so many…”
LOL! Where are these hadiths “ignored as they should be?”
Should the Koran also be ignored then?
This is the typical BS answer to evidence, either you say “so what” or you ignore facts and claim other so-called authority.
Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi is the Muslim world’s version of a tele-evangalist and somehow the blogger wishes us to believe that the head of Al-Azhar and the Grand-Mufti of Egypt is of lesser importance than a radical with a television show.
That is just the proof needed that a western far-right blogger would rather the entire Islamic world be placed on the reputation of a Muslim Television Evangalist but would call any blogger ‘stupid and ignorant’ if the same assumption was given back and that all of Christianity in the West is surely based on the words of the late Reverend Jerry Falwell.
Simply put, your postings are agenda based propoganda because you follow a western-chauvenist right-wing political view and the reality in the end is that your the minority, the staged evidence of your BS is shown for what it is each time but of course is simply ignored and it would be laughable except that it deflects on the real battles against radicalism.
Yes the war is against radicalism, both in Islam – the real physical war with militants (and terrorists) and their supportive radical and extremist ideology. AS WELL as the western radicals from the far-right that use supremicist, bigoted and racist attacks (albiet mostly of a poisonous subversive and information based) to attempt to create hate and division for their own ideology.
Propaganda? Stick with facts, Solkhar:
You already conceded the truth:
“their supportive radical and extremist ideology” -Solkhar? Hello? Anybody home? Where does it come from, this supportive radical and extremist ideology? Where does it come from if not from Koran, sira and hadith?
It is correct that an Egyptian law came into effect which treats all types of female genital mutilation as a crime. Is it enforced? Hardly, if ever. The law, which was passed in 2008, was fiercely criticised by the Islamic Brotherhood and by supporters of the Egyptian parliament, who maintained that they supported the practice as “conforming to Sharia law (Islamic law) and protecting the chastity of women”. However, the Islamic Institution responsible for religious opinion (Dar al-Iftaa) responded by saying that female genital mutilation is not part of the Islamic culture.
“Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)” — ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3
What is ‘Umdat al-Salik? Cairo’s prestigious and influential Al-Azhar University certifies that it “conforms to the practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni Community (Ahl al-Sunna was al-Jama’a).”
Female genital mutilation in all its forms, including the most serious, like infibulation, is practiced in Egypt and in the other 27 African nations, by Muslims.
Tell me Solkhar: why does a manual of Islamic law endorsed by the foremost institution in Sunni Islam say that “circumcision” is “obligatory” for women as well as men?
Furthermore:
Umdat al-Salik itself [in English] contains an example of misleading translation.
In Nuh Ha Mim Keller’s edition, the original Arabic text is published facing the English translation. The English translation of the section on circumcision appears to be a deliberate mis-translation of the Arabic instructions for circumcising girls:
[The Arabic text] is translated by Nuh Hah Mim Keller as follows:
“Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. Bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)”
However what the Arabic actually says is:
“Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called HufaaD).”
This deceptive translation obscures the Shafi’i law, given by ‘Umdat al-Salik, that circumcision of girls by excision of the clitoris is mandatory. This form of female circumcision is widely practiced in Egypt, where the Shafi’i school of Sunni law is followed.
So Solkhar, the pervert, defends this insane, barbaric practice like this:
“western radicals from the far-right that use supremicist, bigoted and racist attacks (albiet mostly of a poisonous subversive and information based) to attempt to create hate and division for their own ideology.”
You are not only dumb, Solkhar. You are also vile, pernicious, obsessed and deranged.
Fucking mother fucker type whatever religion….. dont know what the fuck to do with woman……
Asalam alikum. THIS IS HORRENDUS ACT. iv read sahih hadiths and it states that only a part of the foreskin of the clitoris to be removed, and is OPTIONAL, upon the womens decision. doing so, it prevents many types of diseases, infections from bacteria lying in the folds of the skin, same as the male counterpart, with its own benefits. BUT TO CUT AWAY any other skin besides a partion part hood of the clitoris, OR MUTILATION,, well, thats completely wrong and unislamic. HOW REVOLTING AND UNHUMAN LIKE!! sick people. yuk.
OPTIONAL, upon the womens decision, Sa’eda?
Take a look! Take a look at the pictures of these “women”, Sa’eda. These are toddlers, babies, between one and three years old who are having their clitoris cut out!
Do you think they can make a decision?
“Asalam alikum. THIS IS HORRENDUS ACT. iv read sahih hadiths and it states that only a part of the foreskin of the clitoris to be removed, and is OPTIONAL”
Good, so you agree, Islam does condone the practice of FGM!!Mutilation is mutilation whether it is part of it or all of it.
“upon the womens decision. doing so, it prevents many types of diseases, infections from bacteria lying in the folds of the skin,”
Not really. There is no scientific evidence or medical reports to back that up. Cleaning ones genital area is fairly straight forward for women.
besides the hadith says nothing about it being for hygiene or cleanliness purposes. That is a fabricated and poor justification for FGM.
The fact is that traditional muslims can not deny FGM in Islam without denying hadith. And you can not deny hadith without being considered an apostate. And just because a hadith may be weak does not automatically mean it should be discarded according to hadith experts. Afterall hadith were compiled and preserved for 1000 years. If there was doubt, then they should not have been included.
If citing islamic “scholars” and sources is propaganda, then by default, islam must be viewed as propaganda.
FGM is sunnah according to hadith, but not obligatory. This would be short summary of this topic.
FGM is not in the Quran. Neither is male cirumcision by the way.
Surely Solkhar knows that Islam consists of Quran and hadith.
So what does Solkhar think of the hadith. Not one, not two, but many of them.
Does Solkhar reject hadith seeing as he insists on referring to the Quran?
When the law against FGM was passed in Egypt, streets were swamped with women yelling and screaming, that this is their right according to Sunnah and they will continue to practice this. No manmade law could prevent them.
Also worth noting is that the two previous fatwas from Al Azhar i Egypt in 1951 and 1981 each stated that female circumcision is desirable because it curbs “nature” (i.e. sexual drive among women). It stated that medical concerns over the practice are irrelevant and that parents must follow the lessons of Mohammed and not listen to medical authorities because the latter often change their minds. Parents must do their duty and have their daughters circumcised.
Maybe they changed their mind now. Or maybe they were wrong. So was the remaining Muslim world, when they failed to object these practises and fatwas. Yeah right.
j.doe,
I base Islam on the Qur’an and certainly like most moderates consider the haddiths to be written by men and not divinely inspired, thus we also take them for what and when they were written. It would be a grave mistake on anyone’s part to consider that all Muslims consider the haddiths to be binding and in fact they are disputed, that is why there are five main schools of Islam not to mention the difference between Sunni, Shi’ite, Sufi, Ismaili etc. The only true unifying factor is the Qur’an itself and as you put it, the circumsition reference was not in it.
I think it also important to point out, that you and most people miss, is the power of culture and tribalism world-wide. Most peoples of this world take their culture seriously especially if it dictates how one lives. The reality is that FGM is a culutural/tribal habit and it is not only done by Muslims, it is regional, not difined by religion. That cultural habit, like the treating of women, the use of the burqa are all so imbedded into communities that they automatically assume it is the religion and not their own culture. Tribalists in the mountains of Pakistan punished a girl whom was found talking to a boy without a family member by having her raped by each member of the Tribal Council, it was later condemned by EVERYONE, Imams included, the Tribal leaders claimed it was the religion, they got it wrong.
Certainly ignorance, by lack of education, access being only another ignorant whom is now an Imam are all factors that keep tribal and culturally sick and inhumane behaviour going, that is the enemy. I can understand these people in backwaters being ignorant and continuing with sick processes, so what is the excuse of the agenda based blog-owners and those that comment believing the wrong thing?
Your “agenda” is based on the koran, Solkhar – islam is about to pass its
use-by date in accordance with God’s “agenda”.
If Religion is going to constantly be used to commit barbaric acts and make a mockery of our laws, then maybe its time to ban religion.
Speechless,
it is not religion but man. If you argue that the name of the religion is always the mistake though it is under the title of freedom of religion, then we can go into banning guns for what man has used them though there is the right to defend oneself, banning literature for the slander that is used under the name of freedom of expression and so on.
The ban should be on radicalism and extremism – the attempt to force one’s view upon another. Be it religous, political or cultural, that is the enemy and that should be thrown into the mire that it came from.
This blog-owner is a radical, so the rest you can think yourself.
* This blog-owner is a radical, so the rest you can think yourself.
Speaking of slander, Solkhar, not to mention an implied threat against
him.
No threat nor slander – the poster has supported known biggoted sentiment which is quite radical, he has supported also radical right-wing political sentiment as well (not that I care about politics but I care about radicals turning this world upside down).
As for implied threat, there is none. Mind you, if the blog-owner is not a radical then none of this matters, but your defence is also an acknowledgement.
Mind you religious radicals, such as yourself – the ones that can instill hate on one group while selling your own faith as the “only choice” puts you in the very same category and frankly speaking, I detest your kind even more, be they from any religion, including my own. Simply because it is these whom deserve the term “religious nutjobs” that when put in power try and enforce their beliefs on others and cause repression.
Your article was done with such detail, back ground and educational preference. Its time that it is noted how women today still are enslaved to old traditions that are discriminatory in every way , and still prove that women are considered second class citizens around the world. I am a US citizen and there is no laws requiring such mutiliations, but our rights as women are still surpressed in other ways. The World Health organization should call on leaders of countries where this is done and put a stop to it at once! its harmful to the womens health and mental health.. I do not suppose cutting off a childs clitorius will stablize the hormones they have no yet even developed! what a brutal practice.. I would think Religious leaders would scorn the harm being done to women in the name of God anywhere!
In the Name of ALLAH The Most Gracious The Most Merciful
all praise is due to ALLAH the lord of the worlds and I testify that none has the right to be worshiped except ALLAH alone without partners and I testify that Mohammed is his slave and Messenger
Allah
(The One And Only True God)
SNIP for irrelevance and OT
All your religions are based on some prophet and his book. I say Hinduism is the oldest and most peaceful religion on this earth. No one in this world can ever say that hindu’s attacked or converted people of other religious faiths. Hindu is not just a religion its a very good way of life. In us their is no compulsion to do any thing. Like we don’t have to attend the sunday mass or pray to allah 5 times a day. We say live and let live. There is no one person who is considered supreme in our religion. No pope or prophet.
Hindu,
the greatest number of child-brides and child-bride deaths attempting to give birth is in India. The number one country in the world for female infintacide is in India. All of them in the Hindu portions.
Nepal, an officially Hindu state has the dishonour of having the highest rate of female physical and sexual abuse with almost 1 in 3 women suffering.
With all respect to the majority of good-willed and honest hard working Hindus, please get real.
FGM has been going on since the time of pharoahs and that was mainly the pharoanic circumcision. AND ‘Sunna’means the removal of the prepuce and the tip of the clitoris. this was what the muslims did in the olden days and it wasnt done so women would not acquire pleasure from sex but actually to enhance the pleasure for them. the practice of the entire removal of the whole sex part was practise way before islam came to pass since the times of the pharaohs. Sunna also means the deeds and manner of the muslim prophet. remember there are three diffrent types of circumcision, circumcision or sunna (which the muslim prophet condoned but was also option), Excision or clitoridectomy This involves the removal of the clitoris, and often also of the labia minora. It is the most common operation and is practised throughout Africa, Asia, the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula-in this practice a woman cannot acquire orgasm.Infibulation or Pharaonic circumcision: This is the most severe operation, involving excision plus the removal of the labia majora and the sealing of the two sides, through stitching or natural fusion of scar tissue. What is left is a very smooth surface, and a small opening to permit urination and the passing of menstrual blood. This artificial opening is sometimes no larger that the head of a match.
Introcision: This form of mutilation is practised specifically by the Pitta-Patta Aborigines from Australia: When a girl reaches puberty, the whole tribe – both sexes – assembles. The operator, an elderly man, enlarges the vaginal orifice by tearing it downward with three fingers bound with opposum string. In other districts, the perineum is split with a stone knife. This is usually followed by compulsory sexual intercourse with a number of young men. Introcision is also practised in Peru, in particular among the Conibos, a division of the Pano Indians in the North-East: as soon as a girl reaches maturity, she is intoxicated and subjected to mutilation in front of her community. The operation is performed by an elderly woman, using a bamboo knife. She cuts around the hymen from the vaginal entrance and severs the hymen from the labia, at the same time exposing the clitoris. Medicinal herbs are applied followed by the insertion into the vagina of a slightly moistened penis-shaped object made of clay.
Unclassified types of FGM: includes pricking, piercing or incision of clitoris and/or labia; stretching of clitoris and/or labia; cauterisation by burning of clitoris and surrounding tissues; scraping (angurya cuts) of the vaginal orifice or cutting (gishiri cuts) of the vagina; introduction of corrosive substances into the vagina to cause bleeding or herbs into the vagina with the aim of tightening or narrowing the vagina; any other procedures which fall under the definition of FGM given above
This is completely wrong against the female gender, especially the type III
that’s all wrong and junk only boys circumcise, you can’t remove the clitoris, cuz when sexually aroused it gets filled up with blood so where will the blood go then after when you remove the clitoris and that means she won’t be feeling pleasure when having sex with her husband, in Egypt it’s legally wrong cuz there’s a lot of signs (Say No to Female Circumcision)I don’t think in Muslims it’s right too and I’m a Muslim……
Anon, this site’s main focus is the negative and to run with it all the way to absolute ass end of mindless bigotry.
This is absolutely and outrage.. How could a mother let her child go through this torture. Do people not have hearts? I don’t care if this is for religios purposes it is cruel and I could barely stomach this article while reading. Words can’t even explain the sorrow I feel for these young girls.
Get rid of them all – Anyone who preforms this should be stopped legally in all countries for the multilation of another human-being.
There is no reason to do this kind of a thing medically at all .. its barbaric; inhumane and completely insane – I used to be inpartial to religions and generally came to the conclusions that all religions were barbaric .. all they do is lead to wars.(especially Muslims and Christians)
but this just takes the absolute title away from the Christians for being the most barbaric to its people and humanity; if you are a muslim and you think this kind of a thing is acceptable and should continue to go on – I would suggest you mutlilate yourself before others – e.g cut off your feet; legs; arms; ears; eyes … instead of mutlilating children.
let them decide when they are older if they want to mutilate themselfs – you have no choice in your life … it seems like a very sad existence for you.
I hope that in death … you find what you were hoping for/looking for all this time.
and if you don’t get it … oh well .. least you can say you mutilated children in your past life.
.. you complete psychopaths.
No words really… This is utterly disgusting and beyond comprehension of any civilized person.
this is exactly how the media, controlled by the “new world order” apologists and proponents have distorted the facts to disgusting proportions. the facts are clear and one can simply ask any Muslim within one’s neighbourhood with regards to FGM. This game of vilification of Islam did not start today. It started way way back. How do you think they propagated 9/11? Vilify Arabs through the most innocent and unrelated media messages such as cartoons, paint a picture of an angry arab and carry our 9/11. simply to get a strong foothold into the middle east so that the “promised land” is secured. and whose name should we put forth? Osama bin Laden AKA Tim Osman, a CIA operative. It should also make you wonder, why would the most technologically advanced country not be able to catch one man running around in caves? you know why? he is sitting right there with them enjoying this whole charade. how do you think they pushed their paganist agenda through the christian world? the media. present facts and make the people believe what you want them to believe. mass hypnotism and then push the philosophy of democracy. rule of the “hypnotised, ripened” people. Simply control the world. is that not the agenda of the new world order? is not horus a pagan god that has been the emblem by which christianity was adulterated since 325AD? is not the talmud a mental conortionist product of a pannel of rabbis under pagan rule under Nebuchadnezzar? is not FGM a paganistic tribal ritual practiced in africa and other part of south east asia among tribal people? the answer to this is YES. they all are. fact remains fact. none of those pictures say or depict Islam anywhere. but for the lay believer of the “novo ordo seculorum” who are not willing to be unplugged already primed against Islam by the media, this represents Islam because they say so. Islam is a threat. a threat to the new world order propagated by Darwinist origination, sorry excuse for human beings performing mental gymnastics as they spiral down the conduit of intellectualism. I challenge anyone on this forum to deny the facts i have put forth in this post and i will stop posting otherwise i suggest you think of tearing down my post before someone else visiting this site has a look at it. Islam will not stoop down to the new world order, as christianity and judaism did under pagan rule and adulteration by the pioneering masonic state.
Z
Zuher,
The facts disagree with ALL that you have written. Firstly, your email clarifies that you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer but lets go through your email item by item,
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1) FGM is essentially a social phenomenon but justified by many muslims on islamic grounds
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2) Muslim did commt 9/11. They planned the atrocity and they carried it out.
We even have their idiotic matyrdom blabs. Muslims were responsible.
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Vilify Arabs through the most innocent and unrelated media messages such as cartoons
3) Muslim rioted and caused over 500 deaths in response to those cartoons. The facts cannot be disputed – the muslims create their own bad publicity.
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simply to get a strong foothold into the middle east so that the “promised land†is secured.
4) Ah! another muslim Israeli hater. Israel is there to stay. Curiously, Israel looks after its arab muslim population better than any of the arab muslim countries do, but that is muslim thanks for you.
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and whose name should we put forth? Osama bin Laden AKA Tim Osman, a CIA operative.
5) Whatever name you want to use – we couldn’t care less. Usama Bin Ladin is Saudi – this is known – he was involved in Al Q terror activities – this is known (except by you) . Perhaps Tim Osman refused your advances at the waterhole and you are getting nasty – who cares!!!!!
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It should also make you wonder, why would the most technologically advanced country not be able to catch one man running around in caves?
6) Because it is very difficult to find a single individual – especially when you did not wish to resort to muslim like tactics and start killing innocent people for not telling you where the twit is. In any case – Bin Ladens main threat is through his funding and that can be easily shut of in many other ways- no need to find the idiot.
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you know why? he is sitting right there with them enjoying this whole charade.
7) No – I dont think so – actaully he is probably dead but at present it is not a concern.
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how do you think they pushed their paganist agenda through the christian world? the media. present facts and make the people believe what you want them to believe. mass hypnotism and then push the philosophy of democracy. rule of the “hypnotised, ripened†people. Simply control the world. is that not the agenda of the new world order? is not horus a pagan god that has been the emblem by which christianity was adulterated since 325AD? is not the talmud a mental conortionist product of a pannel of rabbis under pagan rule under Nebuchadnezzar? is not FGM a paganistic tribal ritual practiced in africa and other part of south east asia among tribal people?
8) Apart from the fact that what you have written is very poor English it is also logically contradictory. The vast majority of Christians (the worlds majority religion) would simply laugh at your silly assertions. You do not appear to have any point to make – so perhaps you just like screaming in frustration over your own weaknesses and inabilities (which seem to be significant)
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the answer to this is YES. they all are. fact remains fact. none of those pictures say or depict Islam anywhere. but for the lay believer of the “novo ordo seculorum†who are not willing to be unplugged already primed against Islam by the media, this represents Islam because they say so. Islam is a threat. a threat to the new world order propagated by Darwinist origination,
9) What you have written here is complete rubbish! It is clear that you do not
understand Darwinian evolution. Idiots like you who understand neither your religion nor the work of Darwin claim a conflict between both in order to excuse your own stupidity and lack of mental capability. The conflict does not exist except within YOUR narrow and false interpretations of religion. You are not intelligent – what gives you the right to speak for others. You have neither the capacity , the skill, or the learning.
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sorry excuse for human beings performing mental gymnastics as they spiral down the conduit of intellectualism. I challenge anyone on this forum to deny the facts i have put forth in this post and i will stop posting otherwise
10) you have been challenged – all of what you have written is rubbish.
And don’t threaten.
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i suggest you think of tearing down my post before someone else visiting this site has a look at it. Islam will not stoop down to the new world order, as christianity and judaism did under pagan rule and adulteration by the pioneering masonic state.
11) Christianity and Judaism adapted to new knowledge and to the growth of humankind – neither stooped to anyone or anything. islam cannot do this and it is nothing. The amusing thing is that what you believe makes islam stróng is exactly what will destroy it.
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Do post again!!!!
The circumcision of the female clitorial hood is a normal practice , even today, in the so called civilized, modernized western countries. They called it ‘Clitorial Unhooding’ or ‘Clitoral Circumcision’ or Hoodectomy. It is for sexual/cosmetic purpose. Search the web for more info. It was practiced during the time of Muhammad, but since everything about Islam is bad, it is labelled as ‘Female Genital Mutilation’ in the muslim world, (although many of the muslim nations practiced the cosmetic Hoodectomy). Don’t confuse this with the FGM performed in many parts of Africa, the tradition that existed even before Islam. But these christians would throw everything into the face of Islam as you already know.
Husler,
The simple fact is that islam is used to justify female circumcision by some muslims. Yes – many aspects of islam are bad. If you have a bee in your bonnet about Christianity or any other religion then keep it to yourself – no one else is really interested.
Kaw,
Yours well noted. I would suggest that you don’t fret inter alia with my command of the English language or my sharpness. Either way, the former doesn’t make you a professor in English neither the latter primes you to facing a ‘shaper knife’ akin to one ripe for his/her own circumcision. But that is all beside the point. As much as would love to dive into your defense (or offense as you would see it), it makes for very shallow reading, a dry pool of sorts, if you know what I mean. Your harangue goes nowhere into proving anything you have alleged i.e. FGM in Islam as a proven practice, or whatever you have defended against i.e. horus adulteration, Talmud contortion, 9/11 being an inside job or even the “novo ordo seculorumâ€. I would suggest you have a closer look at history and get a grip over yourself, while you buckle up and read on the council of nicea and the pagan king who oversaw the writing of the bible in 325AD. A great favour he did I must say. One day human and next day Christ turns divine. Just like horus, the Egyptian pagan god. He only got the math wrong though while trying to live up to the number of days Jonah stayed in the belly of the whale. I would love to see the mental acrobatics to fit this square peg in a round hole. I dare say the greatest story ever TOLD suddenly becomes the greatest story ever SOLD. Do kindly check, I implore you before you shoot your mouth off and replay the foot in the mouth trick more often than not, which of course becomes inversely proportional to any good it does to you with increase in frequency of the trick. The same goes with pagan uncle Nebuchadnezzar and his 300 rabbi round table who wrote and rewrote the Talmud to ensure Judaism went the way of the dodo as well oops..say the way of the bible. Wasn’t the Torah the book of the Jews? But of course the only way to get this message across and create a mass following was to make the book the most published book in the world. Get your message across and control the masses. The greatest story ever TOLD becomes the greatest story ever SOLD.
Now comes the matter of 9/11. Do your research lad/lass, the fact is there is growing number of US citizens, and indeed the world over, accepting that this was an inside job through the CIA operative made famous by the name of OBL aka Tim Osman. Do please check on his family business ties with senior Bush. But you are one of those products of the new secular order who just can’t live without being plugged to the system. You got front row seats to the show, I might add. The media has provided the most distorted of facts for you to digest and accept as true and indeed you follow like the obedient child mutatis mutandis. Once again a story told, becomes a story sold. Is it that difficult for the US to find one man after all these years of occupation and torture of afghan and Iraqi civilians? Oh yes and we did indeed visualize the WMD that they found in Iraq. Once again they sold you IQ deprived individuals with a story of WMD and entered Iraq. Lovely. Once again, a story told..a story sold.
Now comes the matter of “novo ordo seculorumâ€, the catch phrase on the ass (behind) the dollar note. Remember your friend horus. He is fabled to have one eye. The eye became a symbol among pagans as a representation of the Sun god, horus who was killed and resurrected after 3 days. You gotta see the eye in the dollar. The pyramid, and then above it the all seeing eye. Pagan Egyptian tinge don’t you think? And with this ancient symbol, the inscription “novo ordo seculorumâ€. New with the old??? How so? A new world order. I wonder what this new world order has to with the US “watch dog of the world†and “push our philosophies down other’s throats†firm policies? There must be a connection… lol. You gotta be blind not to see it. This is indeed laughable. You also have to the stars of USA on the court of arms forming a shape of the Israeli star of David. Then join the dots to the current scenario in the Middle East and the silence of USA as israel continues with its settlement expansion with total disregard to UN resolutions. The establishment of the new world order under the watchful eye of the pagan god horus, the sun god, in whose honour Christians celebrate Christmas on December 25, and of course go to church on Sun-day while Jesus observed Sabbath. This is the new world order, ‘novo ordo seculorum’. Establishment of a new world order with its seat in the Promised Land (gosh even Microsoft word is asking me to capitalize the phrase Promised Land) between the river Nile and the river Euphrates. The latter in Iraq. Observe, asinine little human, the 1947 map of the world, the 1967 map of the world and the current map of the world, and squint one eye..lol..on Israel. Observe the seat of the new world order. Sell the public the falsified bad face of arabs and Islam and take over the middle east.
Now to the matter of FGM. A close observation will show you, if you not that blind, that the ritual was practiced by the pagans, as it is today. Islam outlawed the practice. However, Islam didn’t remain safe, well atleast to the extent of its books of hadeeth. They infiltrated there too and put their filthy FGM propagating hadeeth. Why? It would too shameful to express that as part of the new world order. It would go against female emancipation. So throw the dirt right at the feet of the Muslims and use the media, as was done on the war on terror and WMD to sell…ooops..tell another story. Create mass hysteria and mass following, after all 60% of the media is controlled by the Jews. Oh by the way CBS fox emblem..the all seeing eye of the sun god horus. You, the unplugged one didn’t wanna remain too far behind papa roach, so enter this website and a fortiori, post all those pictures none of which have any link or justification of being Muslim, match them with adulterated hadeeth and show the public what you want them to see. Sell or tell another story.
Facts are Islam started with one man, Muhammad PBUH and in 1400 years we are one and half billion. We are growing at a rate of 12 million annually. You will hear the adhan, the call for prayer, 5 times aday wherever you go till the day your wretched self auto-implodes. Islam will not let “novo ordo secluorum†strip this world of the belief in God, as has already been done with Christianity and Judaism. This story, my little insolent friend, won’t sell, even if you lose your voice telling it.
Lol… I find you quite below debating forte… get me something/ someone better to debate with. Get me papa roach..I have had enough with the maggots. I have effectively put you naked for public viewing.
Byebye mamboleo!
Zuher,
There are no unified religions.
the new world order could care less about religion,
they don’t care how many people will die because of
disasters, disease, deceit, hunger and wars.
The coming dictator will abolish all religion and replace it
with his personal cult worship.
Only YHWH will destroy it all and establish the real
Qahal YHWH on earth.
SM,
The coming dictator, you say? Nay, my friend, the dictator hath cometh. i would also beg to differ with your view that the NWO could care less about religion. No. They want to strip this world of the belief in God, whatever the religion. I am happy that you have hope in God and profess faith in a religion. Use that, and see what is happening around you. Observe and lets talk again soon.
Zuher
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FGM September 23, 2009 at 10:26 pm
FGM has been going on since the time of pharaohs and that was mainly the pharoanic circumcision.
the practice of the entire removal of the whole sex part was practice way before islam came to pass since the times of the pharaohs
Infibulation or Pharaohs circumcision: This is the most severe operation, involving excision plus the removal of the labia majora and the sealing of the two sides, through stitching or natural fusion of scar tissue. What is left is a very smooth surface, and a small opening to permit urination and the passing of menstrual blood. This artificial opening is sometimes no larger that the head of a match.
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In fact, look at the above post on this very thread. lol…the poor guy, an apologist of the conspiracy actually confirms that the practice was pharoanic in origin… and then think of the pyramid and the all seeing eye on the US dollar note, the sun god horus and his connection with Christianity, the pagan Constantine!!! Now we know whose filth this practice was in the ancient world and currently in the modern age and who is being used as a scape goat. Utterly asinine and inane. i would call this the ultimate foot in the mouth trick, par excellence…
i maintain kaw, you’re all braggadocio and no brain. a bag of hot air, full of personal insults and very a very “don’t trip over me” IQ..lol. Give me someone better.
zuher
Zaher,
You are incorrect – do you ever get anything right??? Stop wasting space and others peoples energy.
Your command of the English language is poor, and you are not terribly bright. Your emails support this conclusions. Enough said.
Many muslims use the Quran to justify FGM or whatever else you wish to call this rather inappropriate practise. QED
There is no evidence whatsoever that supports your idiotic statements that 9/11 was an inside job – none what so ever. The only evidence that supports your idiotic claim exists inside your mind – and that is certainly fabricated and flawed.
As regards Iraq, the possible motivator for the destruction of Saadam was the lack of evidence that WMD had been destroyed. Chemical weapons were known to have been used against his population. Not finding then was never the issue – the lack of evidence that they had been destroyed was. I do not expect you to understand this rather simple point.
Most of the rest of your post seems to be based on your personal interpretation of rather opaque writings that can, indeed, be interpreted in many ways. Thea are not worth a reply. You demonstrate an inability to appreciate that most of these writings are not intended to be interpreted literally. As a mosque-dwelling quran indoctrinated idiot you are unlikely to be able to interpret anything than in other the most literal interpretations possible.
One gets the impression that you feel that you are intelligent – you are not – you are, in fact, an idiot. However, you are a dangerous idiot – someone has taught you and you have only partially understood what you have been taught. As regards your religion, you are not the majority religion – your over-estimated growth figures refer only to the unconstrained birth rates in third world countries, which are principally third world because they are muslim. The single reason why muslim growth rates are non-zero in western countries is because of unrestricted immigration – which will be ended soon enough.
You have exposed nothing except your own stupidity and ignorance. I will also add intolerance. Do write again little cockroach – an sincere apololgy to cockroaches for equating you with this poisonous little muslim moron.
Do write again!!!! Oh. and muslims have a bad name because of their actions – and for no other reason.
I’m from turkey and i’m not a muslim but i definitely know there is no such thing like this barbarism in islam. Maybe circumcision is a must for muslim MEN but FEMALE circumcision is just the primitivity itself. There is no rule about it and if there is, it’s sure to be fake. Qur’an or Muhammed or any such islamic source does not urge people to do something like that. Disgustingly primitive. Ignorance couldn’t be more harmful. This is just horrible.
So you are from Turkey and you are not a Muslim?
And you ‘definitely know’ that there is no such thing like this barbarism that has been documented in great detail? Did you even bother to read the article and check the links and references?
And tell us please, if you are not, like you are telling us, a muslim, then how would you know that “Qur’an or Muhammed or any such islamic source does not urge people to do something like that?”
Zuher
Who do you think IS the great dictator?
NWO don’t care about religion in this respect; if you have a religion;
fine, you are out of our way. if you don’t have one; fine, but stay out
of our way. they can deal with contradictions.
the great deceiver will certainly try to strip the world from faith in god
(about that we agree) and enforce worship of false idols.
In a way i don’t believe in religions because they all have too many
problems within. moreover the systemizing can’t save anyone,
i believe in YHWH and personal choice for relation through His Spirit
in Yeshua, covered by His Malak under His Kabod, but i know that
Judaism, Christianity and Islam don’t agree with me in this matter.
I sincerly hope and pray for the good of all men and women, but
honestly the future doesn’t look good at all, the way things are going right now; more than 6 billion people won’t be part of the Qahal YHWH,
The problem is that everybody knows better these days.
Altay,
Whether the practice is discussed in the quran is not relevant. The point is that the practice is justified by many muslims on the basis of their religion. As are a great many other things that one can only call evil – i.e. murder of non-muslims, suppression of reason etc etc. So, hard comment against islam is deserved.
ah zuher,
You illustrate your stupidity to a degree that even your most potent adversary could not achieve (LOL). I suggest that you put your keyboard away before you shoot yourself in the foot again (LOL).
On a serious note, you are a person with little intellect. You have not provided any meaningful discussion in your rather poorly written emails – stop wasting
our time and do something meaningful for a change.
Removing somebody’s body part without their prior consent,justifying it with lame reason of being infant that toddler cannot take decision hence parents have full rights to the childs body. Certainly not!!!
There are fews things, i wud just like to mention without any mutilation stats
1. Let the individual undergo reading scipture himself/herself.
2. Let him/her decide whether they would like to mutilate their genitals.
3.Educate them about cleanliness.
One can purely maintain the chastisity with/without removal of parts.
Thanks Shafi!
i am completely thorn up inside when i hear about things like this happening to young girls and women knowing that in most if not all places that perform this inhumain act do not use any mordern pain killers so all the pain is felt by the patient God help yhem cope.
this is not sunnah this is totally wrong and barbaric. i am a muslim too and there are no such orders in Quran. and in my country there is NO such custom ..
So Islam is supposedly barbaric, and the West is civilized?
Let’s consider some facts from history:
The Romans – crucifixions and mass killings for entertainment
The Crusades – Slaughtered thousands of innocent Christians, Muslims and Jews.
The Spanish Inquisition – Tortured thousands to death
The Conquest of America – Millions of indigenous people killed
The Slave Trade – Run by Europeans, millions killed and displaced
The First World War – Millions slaughtered
Stalin’s Russia – Millions killed in the gulags
The Second World War – 60 million killed. The Nazis were European, right?
Japan – Dropping two nukes on civilian cities. How many 9/11s is that?
Vietnam – Carpet bombing villages, dropping napalm on children, all pretty civilized.
Bosnia – The worst massacre in European history since WWII.
Afghanistan – How many thousands of innocents have been killed so far?
Iraq – 100,000 dead and counting.
etc etc
A Mohammedan under false flag posted the following:
The Romans – crucifixions and mass killings for entertainment/ Romans worry you?
The Crusades – Slaughtered thousands of innocent Christians, Muslims and Jews. /The crusades were defensive wars
The Spanish Inquisition – Tortured thousands to death/ The Muslims killed far more Christians & Jews in a single day than the inquisition in 200 years.
The Conquest of America – Millions of indigenous people killed/ Few killed, but many perished of disease.
The Slave Trade – Run by
EuropeanArabs, millions killed and displaced/ Still conducted by Arabs and African Muslims to this very day.The First World War – Millions slaughtered/ hardly your business
Stalin’s Russia – Millions killed in the gulags/ No Russians post on this blog to my knowledge
The Second World War – 60 million killed. The Nazis were European, right?/ So? Chinese, Japanese and Africans don’t fight wars?
Japan – Dropping two nukes on civilian cities. How many 9/11s is that?/You presumably believe that the US has no right to defend herself?
Vietnam – Carpet bombing villages, dropping napalm on children, all pretty civilized./ The Communists killed millions after they came to power. The US tried to prevent that.
Bosnia – The worst massacre in European history since WWII./ Hardly. Slick Willie Clinton bombed the Christian Serbs to establish Heroin-Jihad fiefdom Kosovo-Bosnia-Herzegovina.
Afghanistan – How many thousands of innocents have been killed so far? By other Muslims….?
Iraq – 100,000 dead and counting./ Again: killed by other muslims.
So what’s the price of meat in Timbuktu?
John (Mohammed the sheep f___).
Lean some history. You are wrong on every one of your examples. You demonstrate the innate stupidity, lack of education and inability to reason that defines a Mohammedan – Piss off you worthless and useless fool!!!!
I am a woman! I do definitely not need any mutilation of my genitals! It is the men who are obsessed with sex. It is men who rape and men who talk young girls and women into intercourse and men who say it is immoral to have intercourse at the same time! It is men who jump at every possibility to have sex and it is men who at the same time say that a girl or a woman who allows them (the men) to have sex with them is a whore! So why do men not do something about it? At their own bodies! Cut it off! Mutilate your own genitals! After that we can go on talking! Or -by the way- men do have brains, don´t they! Why do you not use your brain for a change!?
Allah or god does not make mistakes, right? Why should god have given women or men any part of the body if it was not pure and good?
WHEN GOD CREATED MEN SHE ONLY MADE A FIRST DRAFT!
All religions are primitive, but islam is more primitive than most. Enough is enough. Let us call barbarism what it is.
Actually,
It is Mustahabb (commendable) for females to circumcise. It is narrated in an authentic Hadith quoted from Abu Dawood Shareef that during the Prophet (Sallallaahu ?layhi Wasallam)’s time there was a woman in Madinah who used to perform circumcision for women (Fathul Bari vol. 16 p. 353)
and Allah Ta’ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai
http://muslihoon.wordpress.com/2006/08/18/a-startling-and-uncomfortable-discovery-in-islamic-shariah/
Also read: http://sheikyermami.com/2008/11/03/yusuf-rubs-it-5/
Well, cultural convention also says it is ok to have breast implants, tummy tucks, nose jobs, wear corsets and starve. Other women help other women with these forms of mutilation as well, all in the name of beauty, acceptance and self worth within a male dominant society. Just because other women are circumsizing other women does not make it right. It HuRTS! obviously. It Reduced the chance of orgasm. What I really think is the Men who are for Female circumcision are afraid of CLITS and the mysteries of the many orgasms that can be obtained by a female. They have this forever fantasy of the virgin pussy and by cutting off all the extra bits they have it! Well I say FU** YOU, Im keeping my Clit!! HA
Uuhu. Whats the mening , intelligent people ? Why dont they castrate their sons to? Here around where i live, anyone could get in jail to do the same to animals that they do to their daughters. Havent their god created people to be perfect enough.
WHOEVER CREATED THIS ‘IDEA’ OF CIRCUMCISION FOR FEMALES SHOULD DIE AND ROT IN HELL. FEMALES CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AND DON’T NEE GENITAL MUTILATION TO KEEP THEM ‘CALM’ WHEN ITS THE MEN THAT NEED TO BE KEPT CALM. I HATE ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS IS OKAY AND I HOPE USE ALL GO TO DIE. AND FOR THE PROPHET OR PERSON THAT CAME UP WITH IDEA YOUR A FUKN IDIOT U MOTHERFUKER. sorry about the language to whoever is reading this, but it disgusts me to think what they do to some females and as a Muslim girl im embarrassed of this.
its so cruel to do such a barbarian action on women. you get all the joy of sex from women by cutting that part. they do it because they want to have women as a tool , a slave to re leave themselves . the don’t care about women joy and happiness. Islam is the religion of torturing women as a slave. in some country they buy women as slaves . I think Arabs were better before Islam. they killed baby girls alive. but now they torturing them to death.
Castrate the Males and then cut off their ‘penis’. Then, Females would not have to undergo the torture of clitoris circumsicion.
Why is it that only the females should suffer and lose the power to enjoy sex whilst the men go about having 4 or more wives at one go including children aged about 9 for wives.
Then with one swift ‘talak’ they can divorce the wife who of course having no other source of survival generally looks to prostitution for survival. What a cruel world that MAN makes for Women.
Female circumcision is a deeply, socially rooted practice in a lot of the countries that practice it. This is why western ideologies and propaganda against the practice have not actually lead to any substantial policies to remove it. The only hope of ending this inhumane and highly traumatizing practice against women is to change the basic social problems affecting women in these countries, specifically the lack of education for women and their economic dependency on men that ultimately leads them to mutilate their young girls in hopes of making them more desirable to men.
Kaw and Ceren you are my HEROS!
And John, you completely miss the point. The opposition to this practice is not to claim that Islam is any better or worse than other religions, but rather to allow women the same basic rights all Islamic men have over their own bodies.
this is a HOAX
from HOAX hadeeth
no FGM in Quran
and
even
Prophet Mohammed did not have his own daughters circumcised
so doing FGM should be BIDAH….not SUNAH
You could as well make an article that its a christan tradition to bomb people with depleated uranium, and nuke bombs.
Your information is very useful and i want to thank you for your informations.
but your religious interpretation is strange – mohamed could have ment that you don´t have to wash yourself if you are not cut – after having sex….but your interpretation is… that everybody needs to be cut…..
I know female muslims that are not cut.
I kow the dangers of religious fanatism and extremism as well, but if we want to change something about it – it can only happen with understanding, love, communication, integration and education.
Whats interesting for me is, that men/or women are so afraid of female energy, that they try to cut it off, as well as their social functions and rights even here in “the west”.
If a radio speaker is saying bad things, you say the station is bad. But the station may be very good, and only one speaker is crazy. Such a conclusion is too easy.
A lot of people are trying to convince people against FGM with religious arguments from islam as well as from christianity and they have some success with it. Do you want to fight them? they saved a lot of girls with their escape stations, where they pay attorneys for them and come with police and threaten the parents to put them into jail, if they try again to cut them.
It would be better to fight together against FGM with some educational programs than to fight each other, and being caught in – and wasting time and energy to the game of “who is guilty”.
thx for your article
Maja sez:
The only one who ever claimed that we are bombing people in the name of Christianity is you.
Please read the article, Maja. Where do you find “my interpretation?”
When Muslims tell us that FGM is “part of the sunnah of the prophet” then what am I interpreting? I’m merely reporting correctly what they say and do and they follow their scriptures. Take it up with them, will you?
“…saved a lot of girls with their escape stations, where they pay attorneys for them and come with police and threaten the parents to put them into jail, if they try again to cut them.”
There might be some escape stations in the west where FGM is forbidden, but I have never heard of one in the Islamic countries that practice it. So who pays for these attorneys? Muslims?
I WAS SICK TO SEE YOU PUT THE FACE OF THE YOUNG GIRL ON THE WEB IF IT WAS YOUR CHILD YOU WILL NOT PUT THE PICTURE ON THE WEB
PLEASE RESPECT THIS YOUNG GIRLS AND EDIT THERE FACES
Stupid practise….Stop this for the sake of Allah…This s bid’ah too…
well you have only asked the illiterate and ignorant “muslim” people and of course they will say “yes it’s a sunnah” because they know nothing. many sheikhs of Islam who are from the middle east say that FGM is allowed why? because it is a part of their culture there and they want to keep women as slaves, so they come up with some fake stories and add/remove/change some words from some authentic hadith in order to approve that FGM is allowed, while it is not, and it is very easy to fake an authentic hadith in arabic only one letter can change the whole meening of the sentence. Oh and another fact is that Muhammed didn’t circumcise his own daughters so if it is allowed he would have done it first so that all muslims do it, and there is no single letter of quoran that approves FGM…but if you find one, post it please !
Dear Ann-Sophie,
you are obviously a muslim, another of many who posts here with a Christian moniker. Just wondering why you all apply the same tactics?
Most muslims, the majority of muslims are illiterate and ignorant. The educated ones like Mohammedan Atta and today’s failed bomber Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab are terrorists or jihadists, so what’s your beef? When you pay zakat your money promotes da’awa, jihad and terror, what else is new?
“… because it is a part of their culture…”
It was never part of any culture in Indonesia, which was formerly Hindu and Buddhist. The practice has only recently been introduced and is spreading because of Islam, because of the sunnah of the prophet. Read yourself through the thread and check the references before you make uninformed comments.
You are trying to defend your so-called religion by deflecting away from the koran. It is muslims who engage in this abominable practice and mutilate their daughters.
That’s correct:
‘Um Atiyyat al-Ansariyyah said: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (pbuh) said to her: Do not cut too severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband’.” 1,8
Reference here. (and that’s a muslim friendly website)
You are most welcome to educate your co-religionists and to protect your own daughters from having their clit cut off. But you have no business to tell lies, obscure or engage in taqiyya to deny the reasons why its happening.
Women in the west have breast implants e.t.c but they are grown women and theywhere able to MAKE THAT CHOICE to have breast implants, alter their nose and so on. The people carrying out cliteros cutting are not nessasarity stupid but uneducated, ignorant and probably victims of religious and social expectations. What I dont understand is that women who cut cliteros have probably had there own cut off so why do it to another child? especially when you can identify with the pain and long term suffering? Cliteros cutting is an act that makes men feel – sometimes i believe the world would be a better place if there were no men in it.
There is a Nigerian muslim currently “on vacation” in the USA who may claim he has a “human right” to a replacement set of wedding tackle, following a “man-caused disaster” on board an aircraft.
“Absolutely WRONG
there are war meant to make peace, and there are war because of barbaric action”
But this is totally, welll…. mESS up and it is BARBARIC
to do rape in war is lack of moral
to do that in live is insanity…
Guest who is insane
I would say HIM the (prophet)
If we look into it is a sunna all those who went cant say any bad effect about it because the prophet advices to, so who are the west to discourage it. The west ae envying us because we are not living like them he and she goats. We have sexual desire they dont so they are discouraging us. Lets think wisely.
I like to mutilate the females genital for several reasons. For example females who get their clit and labia cut out and their opening stitch up are much more hygienic. Also a mutilated vagina looks more aesthetically than a natural one.
Shiek – can you send the headers from this email from “misogynist”.
From Germany of all places, kaw. Perhaps just a prank…
female circumcision……….it sounds crazy
FGM is heinously barbaric and inhumane. When will the insanity stop??
Female Genital Mutilation is a barbaric practice that is steepled in the satanic practices of Islam. God never commanded or recommended Female Genital Mutilation. Gave gave his law to Moses in the Torah (Penteteuch). We should clear this up Genital Mutilation of a women is NOT circumcision. Circumcision is removal of the forskin. The woman’s clitoris has no forskin. FGM is nothing more then Male dominance over women. FGM is the same as forcing a woman to wear a hijab. Has nothing to do with God but to do with perversion. The fact that Islam allowes adult males to rape and molest prepubescent girls as shown by Muhammed at 53 molesting A’isha at 9 years old. In the ancient civilization of course we recognize that people married at a younger age then today. but they were over 12/13 had passed puberty and it was males at 13 -15 marrying females who were also 12- 15 same age and contemporaries it was not what was started by Muhammed where old men had sex with little girls. We have a name for those.. A’isha was a victim of child molesting and Muhammed was a pedophile. We need not bow the liberals multi culturalism and try to understand mutilation of a womans vagina or the perversion of an old man raping a child. God will punish all those who molest or mutilate little girls
What intrigues me most about this whole discussion is the hypocrisy of LWWW’s – Liberal Western White Women. They are always so fired up AGAINST: FGM; Muslim men being allowed to have more than one wife; enforcement of hijab and burkha on Muslim women in Western societies; Islamic injunctions allowing Muslim men to effectively rape their wives if they want sex; honour killings which are endemic throughout Muslim societies… the list goes on and on… and yet, these self-same Liberal Western White Women are the very first to scream at the top of their lungs “Racist!”, “Extremist!”, “Intolerant bigot!” whenever a man dares to criticise Islam.
It gets worse. Suggest to a LWWW that people (women AND men)ought to consider marriage and children as a life priority ahead of any personal pursuits and she’ll pick up her feminist primer and scream “Sexist!” “Chauvinist!”, “Brutal Monster Pig Bastard!”.
Result? The Western culture’s non-Muslims are dying out as more and more LWWW choose to take the Pill, indulge in illicit sex, dress and act like whores but expect to be treated like virgin Goddesses, delay marriage until well into their 30s, choose to not to have children for health and financial reasons … Meanwhile, the Muslims breed and breed and breed… despite all their FGM. Congratulations, LWW! you’ve just sealed the death of Western culture.
And let’s just add something to drive the point home, huh…?!
Islam DOES subjugate women into virtual slavery. Islam does NOT tolerate any other religions – for a person to convert from Islam to another religion frequently brings death. Yes, DEATH!… The UK already has elevated Sharia law to equal status with its own civic laws, the birthrate of Muslims in the West is almost double that of non-Muslims… it’s all just a matter of time. [By the way, do you think the Muslims of China really abide by the ‘one child’ policy? As if!]
Meanwhile, LWWW are still happy to call all non-Muslim men “pigs”, “sexists”, “want us all to be barefoot and pregnant”, “double standard hypocrites” etc, etc, etc. In short, Islam is taking over. Talk about ironic! The very thing the Feminazis DON’T want is the very thing they’ve doomed their great grand-daugthers (if they have any kids at all!) to a world where Muslim men keep their women in eternal sexual, political and financial subordination to men. So much for Equality! Hah!
Sad, huh!
My sentiments exactly, Observer.
With the earlier refernce to a gynaecologist working in Makkah and the response that he is a nutter because Makkah is only for Muslims is stupid and incorrect. Part of the outskirts of the city are open to non muslims as can be seen by the signs which state the limit for non muslims. Also a muslim should always give primacy to the word of Allah as given in the Holy Koran which states that the human body should not be mutilated. I believe there is enough difference between male and female circumcision to truthfully decribe female circumcision as mutilation
I agree very strongly with those who are against the cutting of innocent women and childern. I do think ALL thoses who are doing the cutting should have their own PARTS CUT OFF and that is no understatement. How do they think a women could respond to them as men any other way. How can you as a person respect some-one who does not give you a choice of having this done or not. I agree CUT their BALLS and DICKS OFF and ask them if they like it.
so fuckin moron, this is what islam do to woman .
did they thinks its fun? so fuckin useless,
┌Пâ”(â—£_â—¢)┌П┅….
Just eat my shit man….
Let me tell u something…
I’m Moslem too…
But not crazy, stupid, like u…
THIS IS ALL HOAX!!!
YOU ALL HAVE BEEN FOOLED!!!
FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS NOT THAT BLOODY AND GORE!!!
HOW COME YOU TRUST 100% TO INFORMATION FROM UNRELIABLE SITE??!!..USE YOUR BRAIN (IF YOU HAD ONE)!!!..
…..And your point?
Discuss the terrible custom of cutting off women’s major and minor labias and sewing up what is left, while you mad mullahs are away killing and maiming innocent non-Muslims, simply because you mossies think women are your chattels.
I am proudly Catholic…..
I am working to put a stop to your murderous cult…..; )
‘ FUCK TO ALL ISLAM HATERS February 6, 2010 at 9:59 pm
THIS IS ALL HOAX!!! ‘
NICE LANGUAGE FROM A SO-CALLED RELIGIOUS MAN!
PHOTOS DONT LIE!
F__ to all islam haters
Thanks for proving again that islamists are mind dead dolts!!!!
This is sick ! Wild Islamic world ! this religion is so wild like all … rest of that shit ! .For all pedofils mast cut eggs away!!! Freedom for sex and Cannabis indica !!! Greatings forom Europe !!!
MAYBY ISLAM WOMANS HAITES ISLAM ASHOLS !!!
The Jews used to practice clitoridectomy in earlier times as well.
Really, “Susanne?”
Any evidence?
Yeah “sheikyermami”. Here’s some evidence:
* Salo Wittmayer Baron, “A social and religious history of the Jews”
* Andrew Paul Lyons & Harriet Lyons, “Irregular connections: a history of anthropology and sexuality”.
What’s your point, “susanne?”
An obscure book by some irrelevant anthropologist? You are trying to establish some kind of justification, moral or immoral equivalence to the fact that Mohammedans TODAY are cutting the clitoris out of their daughters vagina?
What’s the purpose of sending me on a wild goose chase, setting up straw men and driving me up a creek to find a lost tribe? What’s the price of camel dung in Timbuktu?
Does it matter?
Well, if you’re looking for evidence; read the books, the titles of which I have listed before.
Have a nice day.
Can’t be bothered, “Susanne”.
You had your chance to make your point and you blew it. Bye now!
Let’s clean up a few of Adam Kratt’s words of wisdom, shall we?
—
Male Genital Mutilation is a barbaric practice that is steepled in the holy practices of Christianity. God commanded and recommended Male Genital Mutilation. Gave gave his law to Moses in the Torah (Penteteuch). We should clear this up Genital Mutilation of a man is circumcision. Circumcision is removal of the forskin. The woman’s clitoris has a prepuce, which is analogous to the male foreskin. MGM is nothing more then Male oppression. MGM is the same as forcing the removal of a woman’s clitoral hood. In modern times, it has little to do with religion, but rather with perversion. The fact that the United States still allows infant males to be violated by this barbaric practice. In the ancient civilization, of course, it was believed that circumcision (Male Genital Mutilation) was a solution to masturbation, hygiene, appearance, etc. but modern scientific study has shown that circumcision is disproportionately harmful when compared to any benefits (assumed, or proven). We have a name for this sort of perpetuation of lies and detrimental practices… Propaganda. We need not bow to the conservatives, shift focus away from what affects us most, or try to understand mutilation of a man’s penis or the perversion of an infant’s foreskin being stolen without the child’s consent. God will punish all those who molest or mutilate little boys.
Do you also suffer from reading comprehension?
This article is about Female Genital Mutilation, not male circumcision. Don’t muddle the waters, stay on topic!
All that being said, Kratt was also on the mark.
FGM is just as wrong as routine infant circumcision.
Let’s just put it this way. Male circumcision is required in Islam; female circumcision is not. People around the world may torture their sisters and daughters by mutilating their genitals, and they may do it in the name of Islam, but these monsters do not represent my religion. FGC is a cultural practice rather than a religious one. There are 1.57 billion Muslims in the world today, according to the Pew Research Forum (http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=450). I seriously doubt all of the women of that 1.57 billion are circumcised and that all the men of that number are responsible for cutting up their genitals. The world is large and multifarious; the population of Muslims is vast and diverse. Female genital cutters don’t represent my religion. And as a Muslim woman, you can’t tell me that I’m tortured and oppressed, especially when I’m NOT. This is *my* religion and I know it best.
Thank you, Xona.
Unfortunately you are not Allah who ‘knows best’. Perhaps you need to be reminded that in Islam women are only worth half of a man.
“as a Muslim woman, you can’t tell me that I’m tortured and oppressed”
Why should I care? I don’t care whether you’re tortured or oppressed. Enjoy it as Allah wills it!. As long as you live in a Mohammedan country I don’t care whether you are under a burqa or six foot under. Just don’t bring the burqa with you and try to force your belief system on us.
Allah is not G-d. Allah doesn’t love. Allah is a hateful monstrosity.
As for your reading/comprehension disabilities I suggest you read closely what Muslims are saying: “Female Genital Mutilation is part of the sunna of the prophet”, Islamic clerics don’t say FGM is the culture of Muslims but a religious demand.
The eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:
But Qaradawi is obfuscating:
The Arabic version of the law states:
* Note the English version falsely translates bazr as ‘prepuce ‘ of the clitoris!!)
Back to you, Xona:
Nobody here cares whether there are 5 or 10 gazillion muslims, even if there were, that doesn’t make it right. We have never claimed that all of them are cutting up women’s genitals, but the practice is spreading around the world because of Islam.
Few of our readers here care about Rumi or Sufi love.
I’m sure the 1.5 million dead Armenians, the Assyrians and the 300.000 Christian Greeks of Turkey still feel the love of Islam 6 feet under.
Btw: Here’s the latest on FGM:
The U.N. estimates 120 to 140 million women have been subject to this harmful and dangerous practice and 3 million girls continue to be at risk each year, its release said.
Sheikh yer Mami, it’s not surprising that the people responsible for FGM will attribute it to their religion. It’s just as the terrorists do: they claim that their violent suicide bombings is “martyrdom”, when in fact suicide is specifically prohibited in Islam. So many people around the globe take Islam and manipulate it to justify their cruel deeds. The reason I pointed out that there are 1.57 billion Muslims around the world is to expose you to different Muslim perspectives. There are Muslims who will rape women and say that it was “part of their religion”, and simultaneously there are Muslims who will condemn rape and say that it has nothing to do with their religion. No Muslim is one and the same. We may follow the same religion, but our interpretations of it greatly vary.
As a Muslim woman, I’m rather offended by the claims you make here on your blog. I am a Muslim woman, and I go out in public with my hair left down and my face exposed. I talk to men as my equals and expect them to treat me thus–Muslim or otherwise. My religion is my first priority, spiritually and practically, and so everything I do is justified by Islam. I cover my body and don’t wear anything that goes above the ankle and I don’t date men.
There are many strong and powerful Muslim women around the world and throughout history. Benazir Bhutto was the *elected* Prime Minister of Pakistan. The people who voted for her included both men and women, the majority of whom were Muslim. Queen Rania al-Abdullah is the queen consort of Jordan. She’s a humanitarian, an advocate for human rights and–get this–a fashion icon. When asked about honor killings, one of the many misogynistic acts that are attributed almost exclusively to Muslims, Rania said:
As a woman, as an Arab, as a Muslim, I would like to state very clearly that this is a heinous and totally unacceptable practice. It is not condoned by Islam, and honor killings are not limited to the Arab or Muslim world.
(http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1619564,00.html#ixzz0fRzEmZGt)
I believe the same can go for female gential mutilation.
Nice try, Xona.
So Fareed Zakaria is more credible than me because he is the son of an imam, a slick taqiyya artist who has degrees from Yale and Harvard?
And you are offended by the claims on this blog? Well, you have no right not to be offended. For the most part we report what we hear from Muslims, and they tell us that Islam is not to be “interpreted” but taken straight up, undiluted, because Allah has already decided all matters for them.
Let me tell you that we are offended by the behavior and the demands of muslims, by their claims of entitlement, by their stupidity, their arrogance and their mindless fanaticism.
You claim:
Well, that already proves that you are a submitter, one that doesn’t question the ugliness of your belief system. Or are you open to reason?
Who are you? Who are you to think you can interpret Islam? Are you a scholar? Are you an imam, a mufti or a mullah? What are your degrees? What are your credentials?
I don’t give a hoot on whether you cover up or not, you live in America. The last time I checked America was not a muslim country. Try it in Saudi Arabia or in Afghanistan if you want to impress me.
In Islam, you are not equal to men, not in Islam. Muhammad said “women are deficient” and their witness is only half of a man.
women are not allowed to rule over men/fatwa
I am unimpressed by Queen Rania, Bhutto or any other of these representatives of powerful clans or tribes. What has queen Rania done to stop honor killings? Nada, zilch, niente, nothing.
There is much more, here. I suggest you educate yourself.
Fine. That may be your opinion, but since you live in the US your opinion doesn’t go very far, does it? Do you know anybody who is influenced by your opinion?
Why don’t you write to sheik Qaradawi, who is an eminent scholar on Islam with far reaching influence in the Muslim world and educate him on how to ‘interpret’ Islam properly?
All I have to say is this is CRUEL AND INSULTING TO WOMEN… Im not a Woman and I would NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN TO MY DAUGHTER… Its like the Xona said:
“… it’s not surprising that the people responsible for FGM will attribute it to their religion. It’s just as the terrorists do: they claim that their violent suicide bombings is “martyrdomâ€, when in fact suicide is specifically prohibited in Islam. So many people around the globe take Islam and manipulate it to justify their cruel deeds. The reason I pointed out that there are 1.57 billion Muslims around the world is to expose you to different Muslim perspectives. There are Muslims who will rape women and say that it was “part of their religionâ€, and simultaneously there are Muslims who will condemn rape and say that it has nothing to do with their religion. No Muslim is one and the same. We may follow the same religion, but our interpretations of it greatly vary.”
Rodriguez:
“There are Muslims who will rape women and say that it was “part of their religion—
“there are Muslims who will condemn rape and say that it has nothing to do with their religion.”
Perhaps. But they are lying. Or they didn’t read the Koran and the hadith.
Islam is not to be interpreted, Islam is to be taken literally. Ask your imam.
They do indeed. Because of Qur’an (9:111) – “Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain…
How these people deny what is being said in name of their religion.
I wished that in every Western country severy punishment would be practiced, by the ones who are committing these crimes and by the ones who ordered them them , whether, father, mother, brother tho whole crazy clan who is involved.
Anyone who encourages this disgusting antiquated practice need their heads checking. All you people who think they need to mutilate women to control their sexual desire are sad and need to learn to control their own emotions.
Why don’t we bring back eunuchs too? Don’t worry we will only ‘trim’ off the head of the penis then no body will enjoy sex but we can still reproduce! Then we can all be a bunch of inhuman, non-sexual, emotionless religious fanatics.
Humanity should be embraced- All aspects of it!
Anyone who encourages this disgusting antiquated practice need their heads checking. All you people who think they need to mutilate women to control their sexual desire are sad and need to learn to control their own emotions.
Why don’t we bring back eunuchs too? Don’t worry we will only ‘trim’ off the head of the penis; then no body will enjoy sex but we can still reproduce! Then we can all be a bunch of inhuman, non-sexual, emotionless religious fanatics.
Humanity should be embraced- All aspects of it!
Independent research from the Baron over at the Gates of Vienna confirms the complete removal of the clitoris:
I also mentioned that the original Arabic is more stringent than the English version, in that it specifies excising the entire clitoris rather than just the prepuce. I find further backing for this assertion in the Australian Islamist Monitor, which reports:
Reliance of the Traveller, a classical manual of Islamic sacred law in Arabic with facing English text, commentary and appendices edited and translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller (1994) re ‘circumcision’ we find the Arabic actually says –
“Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called HufaaD). “ (p59) (Shafi’I jurisprudence)
(Note the English version is falsely translated as ‘prepuce ‘ of the clitoris!!)
Here’s all the evidence needed:
Al-Misri on Circumcision
I can give you some space to place the truth about all of it…
It is so…. pathologioc…
I’m speachless
John
EVERY ONE BECAME MUSLIM AND THEY CAN MAKE ONE TIME IN THE WORLD THIS PRACTICE BECOZ WE BELIVED IN REBONE SO WHO KNOW U MAY BE AGAIN BE CAME MUSLIM WOMAN SO DO NOT FEAR BE HAPPY ENJOY LIFE NOW I LOVE SANIYA HINDI SHE DID NOT LIKE ANY INDIAN ANY HOW WE R HAPPY
Thank you for bothering to keep up with your comments, sheikyermami. It’s quite impressive.
I understand that the topic at hand is explicitly FGM, especially within the Muslim world. For that, I apologize for interrupting the flow of this debate.
I’m on your side about this, but man do I feel it deep when MGM is pushed aside.
Back on track: The practice of removing the entire clitoris is often incorrectly referred to as Circumcision. In fact, this practice is more accurately referred to as a Clitoridectomy. If any of these acts were done willingly (preferably with a great passion, though not preferred at all!) I wouldn’t have a problem with it. In the overwhelmingly common instance of Genital Mutilation being performed without consent or on an obligatory basis, I am completely disgusted.
Here’s an excellent article on Female Circumcision in Islam. It shows that it is mandatory, but at the same time what has to be removed is only the prepuce of the clitoris which is very much like male circumcision.
There are many ahadith or sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him)to show the important place, circumcision,whether of males or females, occupies in Islam.
Among these traditions is the one where the Prophet is reported to have declared circumcision (khitan) to be sunnat for men and ennobling for women (Baihaqi). He is also known to have declared that the bath (following sexual intercourse without which no prayer is valid) becomes obligatory when both the circumcised parts meet (Tirmidhi). The fact that the Prophet defined sexual intercourse as the meeting of the male and female circumcised parts (khitanul khitan or khitanain) when stressing on the need for the obligatory post-coital bath could be taken as pre-supposing or indicative of the obligatory nature of circumcision in the case of both males and females.
Stronger still is his statement classing circumcision (khitan) as one of the acts characteristic of the fitra or God-given nature (Or in other words,
Divinely-inspired natural inclinations of humans) such as the shaving of pubic hair, removing the hair of the armpits and the paring of nails
(Bukhari) which again shows its strongly emphasized if not obligatory
character in the case of both males and females. Muslim scholars are of
the view that acts constituting fitra which the Prophet expected Muslims to follow are to be included in the category of wajib or obligatory.
That the early Muslims regarded female circumcision as obligatory even for those Muslims who embraced Islam later in life is suggested by a tradition occurring in the Adab al Mufrad of Bukhari where Umm Al Muhajir is reported to have said: “I was captured with some girls from Byzantium. (Caliph) Uthman offered us Islam, but only myself and one other girl accepted Islam. Uthman said: ‘Go and circumcise them and purify them.’†More recently, we had Sheikh Jadul Haqq, the
distinguished head of Al Azhar declaring both male and female
circumcision to be obligatory religious duties (Khitan Al Banat in FatawaAl-Islamiyyah. 1983). The fatwa by his successor Tantawi who opposed the practice cannot be taken seriously as we all know that he has pronounced a number of unislamic fatwas such as declaring bank interest halal and questioning the obligation of women wearing headscarves.
At the same time, however, what is required in Islam, is the removal of
only the prepuce of the clitoris, and not the clitoris itself as is widely
believed. The Prophet is reported to have told Umm Atiyyah, a lady who circumcised girls in Medina: “When you circumcise, cut plainly and do not cut severely, for it is beauty for the face and desirable for the husband†(idha khafadti fa ashimmi wa la tanhaki fa innahu ashraq li’l wajh wa ahza ind al zawj) (Abu Dawud, Al Awsat of Tabarani and Tarikh Baghdad of Al Baghdadi).
This hadith clearly explains the procedure to be followed in the
circumcision of girls. The words: “Cut plainly and do not cut severelyâ€
(ashimmi wa la tanhaki) is to be understood in the sense of removing the skin covering the clitoris, and not the clitoris. The expression “It is beauty (more properly brightness or radiance) for the face†(ashraq li’l wajh) is further proof of this as it simply means the joyous countenance of a woman, arising out of her being sexually satisfied by her husband. The idea here is that it is only with the removal of the clitoral prepuce that real sexual satisfaction could be realized. The procedure enhances sexual feeling in women during the sex act since a circumcised clitoris is much more likely to be stimulated as a result of direct oral, penile or tactile contact than the uncircumcised organ whose prepuce serves as an obstacle to direct stimulation.
A number of religious works by the classical scholars such as Fath Al
Bari by Ibn Hajar Asqalani and Sharhul Muhadhdhab of Imam Nawawi
have stressed on the necessity of removing only the prepuce of the
clitoris and not any part of the organ itself. It is recorded in the Majmu Al Fatawa that when Ibn Taymiyyah was asked whether the woman is
circumcised, he replied: “Yes we circumcise. Her circumcision is to cut
the uppermost skin (jilda) like the cock’s comb.†More recently Sheikh
Jadul Haqq declared that the circumcision of females consists of the
removal of the clitoral prepuce (Khitan Al Banat in Fatawa Al Islamiyya. 1983).
Besides being a religious duty, the procedure is believed to facilitate good hygiene since the removal of the prepuce of the clitoris serves to prevent the accumulation of smegma, a foul-smelling, germ-containing cheese- like substance that collects underneath the prepuces of uncircumcised women (See Al Hidaayah. August 1997). A recent study by Sitt Al Banat Khalid ‘Khitan Al-Banat Ru’ yah Sihhiyyah’ (2003) has shown that female circumcision, like male circumcision, offers considerable health benefits, such as prevention of urinary tract infections and other diseases such as cystitis affecting the female reproductive organs.
For more benefits of Islamic female circumcision also known as hoodectomy see http://www.hoodectomyinformation.com
Geez these muslims are f’d up. Who would even think to subject their own children to this barbaric practice. Muslims don’t even protect their own children. It is disgusting and a damn shame they are allowed to procreate. Even animals protect their young out of sheer instinct. I would call Muslims animals but animals have more sense then they do! I think I will just go with subhuman waste. Lets start taking out the trash.
* Besides being a religious duty …
But the “religious duty” mysteriously shape-shifts into a “cultural thing” when a non-muslim connects the dots with islam and its false prophet.
Don’t deviate from the script, ahmed.
This real sick
I hope that you feel the pain every day 24!!!!!!!
Silly me, and I thought Makkack was a type of Monkey.
Come to think of it I was right. Only a lower form of life could conceive a torture like this.
Saw something like this for the first time.
Never known before…..
Mutilation of innocent children is obviously mayhem, a classic felony, whether an attempt is made to justify it on religious or cultural grounds or not.
SO by seeing this is know that God dont make human perfect
these BUTCHERS have to correct Gods work of creation
Sheik thank you soo much for showing this and open the peoples eyes
Dear Visitors ! The writing contains many half truth and half false. The quoted statements in the chapter above are not published as a whole ( I mean in just part/ half). They dont describe the complete scenario of the situation. Please dont get misguided. May Allah guide us All. Amin
Dear Abbasid,
please let us know “the complete scenario of the situation”.
God bless these poor girls. The clitoris is the only human organ devoted solely to pleasure. God gave it to us, intentionally. It helps a woman produce lubrication to make sex comfortable. To deny any woman her God-given right to sexual pleasure by removing her clitoris is sinful, sickening mutilation.
Sheki yer mami faggot u r jewish 🙂 and jewish is ugly bye now.
How sad that they see it necessary to continue to practice a pagan tradition that started with the ancient egyptians over 2000 years ago – before Mohammed – May Allah Have Mercy On Him – or Jesus Christ was even born. It is an affront to Allah / God that his name is used to justify pagan barbarity. I am glad I live in a country where we can see the true light and words of the prophet and know that he would not condone this pagan affront to Allah.
Female genital mutilation “is part of the Sunna of the Prophet”
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/05/31/female-genital-mutilation-is-part-of-the-sunna-of-the-prophet/
allah and its false prophet are an affront to … everything.
The Holy Qaran makes no mentioning
of circumcision. Both Male and Female
circumcision should be considered
genital mutilation. They are both rooted
in ancient Egyptian paganism. The Circumcision
Cult was very popular in Egypt. When males
reached puberty they were often attacked
kidnapped and forced into the Circumcision
Cult. The ancient Israelites incorporated
circumcision into the traditional 8th day
naming and baptismal ceremony (Aqiqah) as
a means of avoiding forced abduction and
circumcision at puberty. Once the Eyptians
knew that the Israelites were practicing infantile
circumcision they no longer sought to force them
into the Circumcision Cult. Female circumcision
also known as ” Pharaonic Circumcision ” is a
result of Egyptian influence and is not Muslim in
origin. In fact it is a custom of the Falasha Jews of
Ethiopia and the Igbo Christians of Nigeria.
The Holy Qaran states that hypocrites go to the lowest
stage of the Hellfire. If there is going to be a ban on
female circumcision then there should be a ban on male
circumcision as well. Both Male and Female circumcision
are rooted in the same Egyptian practices of
” Genital Mutilation”. The Greek historian Strabo
noted that his Jewish contemporaries practiced both
male and female circumcision. Both male and female
circumcision were initially implemented with the intent
of limiting the distractions of sexual desires. This would
be the equivalent of cutting out your tongue for fear of
speaking offensive words. This kind of twisted logic defeats
the whole purpose of the spiritual challenge of overcoming
temptation and relying on the Lord for mercy and forgiveness.
Maybe genital mutilators believe that they are following the
teachings of Jesus:
Mark 9:43 New Testament(N.T.)
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Both male and female circumcision should be limited to a
personal adult decision for 18 or 21 years of age.
“The Holy Qaran makes no mentioning of circumcision.”
The “holy” koran is irrevelant when it comes to the covenant between God and Abram / Abraham, and male circumcision as a requirement of that covenant.
“This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your seed after you; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.”
(Genesis 17:10)
Nothing to do with Egyptian circumcision cults, simply a sign of the covenant between God and Abraham and his descendants.
To my knowledge, God (not the mohammedan allah) has not required female circumcision or similar as part of a covenant.
The Holy Qaran makes no mentioning
of circumcision. Both Male and Female
circumcision should be considered
genital mutilation. They are both rooted
in ancient Egyptian paganism. The Circumcision
Cult was very popular in Egypt. When males
reached puberty they were often attacked
kidnapped and forced into the Circumcision
Cult. The ancient Israelites incorporated
circumcision into the traditional 8th day
naming and baptismal ceremony (Aqiqah) as
a means of avoiding forced abduction and
circumcision at puberty. Once the Eyptians
knew that the Israelites were practicing infantile
circumcision they no longer sought to force them
into the Circumcision Cult. Female circumcision
also known as †Pharaonic Circumcision †is a
result of Egyptian influence and is not Muslim in
origin. In fact it is a custom of the Falasha Jews of
Ethiopia and the Igbo Christians of Nigeria.
The Holy Qaran states that hypocrites go to the lowest
stage of the Hellfire. If there is going to be a ban on
female circumcision then there should be a ban on male
circumcision as well. Both Male and Female circumcision
are rooted in the same Egyptian practices of
†Genital Mutilationâ€. The Greek historian Strabo
noted that his Jewish contemporaries practiced both
male and female circumcision. Both male and female
circumcision were initially implemented with the intent
of limiting the distractions of sexual desires. This would
be the equivalent of cutting out your tongue for fear of
speaking offensive words. This kind of twisted logic defeats
the whole purpose of the spiritual challenge of overcoming
temptation and relying on the Lord for mercy and forgiveness.
Maybe genital mutilators believe that they are following the
teachings of Jesus:
Mark 9:43 New Testament(N.T.)
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Both male and female circumcision should be limited to a
personal adult decision for 18 or 21 years of age.
The Old Testament is not the original
Torah of Moses. Go to http://WWW.QARAIMS.COM
and click on the ORIGINAL TORAH. The
Lord never told anyone to mutilate their
genitals. This was later added to justify the
infusion of pagan customs. Circumcision was Egyptian
paganism and the Israelites learned it from their
extensive relationship with the Egyptians.
The original symbol of the covenant was the
Earring because it was a covenant of the “Hearing”
as in Shema Israel. Both male and female circumcision
are rooted in Egyptian paganism. What is good for the
goose is good for the gander ban both of these horrifying
abuses until an responsible adult decision can be made
at 18 or 21 years of age. The movement against male
circumcision is growing JAC (Jews Against Circumcision)
is one of several groups opposed to this barbaric act
against infant males.
Mothers Against Circumcision
Today, many Jews are questioning circumcision and opting against it. Some Christians mistakenly believe circumcision is required. “The physician today has a duty to discourage …
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org · Cached page
JEWS AGAINST CIRCUMCISION
[jewsagainstcircumcision.org]
do not circumcise, it is barbaric, primitive and a human rights violation
jewsagainstcircumcision.org
* Mark 9:43 New Testament
Was Israel under the Old Testament (Law), or had the New Testament, based on Jesus Christ’s crucifixion for our sins and subsequent resurrection come into effect when Jesus was teaching these things to his disciples and followers?
Mark 15:1 “And the first thing in the morning the chief priests, with those in authority and the scribes and all the Sanhedrin, had a meeting, and put cords round Jesus, and took him away, and gave him up to Pilate.”
Here is a dilemma for you, ISHAQ AL-SULAIMANI, when you quote Scripture to suit your purpose, when allah and its false prophet claim that the Scriptures have been altered and Jesus Christ was not crucified, and thus there can be no New Testament, which is based on salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ paying the price for our sins on the cross.
Which is it, ISHAQ AL-SULAIMANI, a New Testament, or the denials of allah and its false prophet? Your eternal destiny depends on your response in your lifetime.
This is not a dilemma at all. The
Old Testament does not contain
the Original Torah of Moses and the
New Testament is not the original
writings of Jesus being the Injeel.
The Holy Qaran is the only pure
unadulterated scripture that is completely
authoritative for this dispensation as the
Prophet Muhammad is the Last of the
Prophets. Although the Bible is not
a divine revelation it does contain
many truths which must be verified and
separated from that which is false.
Being that I do not uphold the Bible as
” Divine Revelation” I am free to discern
and differentiate in regards to its content.
The ISAWIYYA ISRAELITE MOSQUE OF
QARAIMS(WWW.QARAIMS.COM) explains
the method of discerning Biblical Scripture:
5. We believe that the Holy Qaran is the verification of all past truths.
All other scriptures are a mixture of truths and falsehoods whose
content is measured in relation to the Holy Qaran. If it finds
verification in the Holy Qaran then it is declared true. However if it is
negated by the Holy Qaran then it is surely false, and if it is not
mentioned then it is compared,measured and evaluated by the Amir in
terms of historical, scientific and theological content.
The Prophet Muhammad fulfilled the Prophecy of Daniel
in regards to cleansing the Sanctuary. The Dome of the Rock
is the restoration of the Solomonic Temple known as Beyt
Maqdis. Only those Israelites who accept the Prophet Muhammad
and the revelation of the Holy Qaran will be at peace with their
Holy site and with their Creator!
ISHAQ,
You are completely off topic and you are derailing the discussion about FGM.
No one made that claim. This thread is called “Female genital mutilation is part of the Sunna of the Prophet”
You are welcome to post about Israel, the temple mount etc. elsewhere.
The Dome of the Rock is the restoration of the Solomonic Temple known as Beyt Maqdis.
Really? You are in for a surprise. I can’t think of any Jews who accept the islamic structures on the Temple Mount as being the genuine article.
allah is a conman, passing off snide things as genuine, from the Temple of God to his entire fraudulent religion.
islam is doomed, along with its god, its false prophet, and its followers.
Off-topic, but for Ishaq’s benefit:
http://www.3rdtemplebill.org/
People for a Bill to Build the Bet HaMikdash
Ishaq
Do you understand what circular reasoning is? -No? I guess as a muslim the concept is completely foreign to you. It means that your proofs are not proofs at all – more accurately a statement of your warped faith. mohammed the rapist and murderer is not the last of the prophets – religion is a human concept, as as we grow so do does the understanding of religion. As a muslim you are tied into believing the inflexible ravings of a criminal, which is why you can only use circular reasoning to defend the babble that you are writing!!
So folks – again you see the limits of islamic intellect – ague that black is green, and then argue that because grass is green black must be green too QED-NOT!!!
Tip Ishaq,
convince your fellow mohammedans to behave like intelligent people and stop bothering trying to convert people here. You are an idiot – and I am being nice.
Prior to the Zionist movement it was
commonly accepted amongst many
Jews that the Dome of the Rock was the
restoration of the Temple:
LEGENDS OF JERUSALEM -ZEV VILNAY
SACRED LANDS VOLUME 1 1973
JEWISH PUBLICATION SOCIETY OF
AMERICA PP.20
As a DNA proven Kohen I personally
support and advocate this belief.
In the same manner there are many Jews opposed
to male infantile circumcision:
Mothers Against Circumcision
Today, many Jews are questioning circumcision and opting against it. Some Christians mistakenly believe circumcision is required. “The physician today has a duty to discourage …
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org · Cached page
JEWS AGAINST CIRCUMCISION
[jewsagainstcircumcision.org]
do not circumcise, it is barbaric, primitive and a human rights violation
jewsagainstcircumcision.org
21.
KAW,
The things of faith are discussed within
the context of faith and things that belong to the
secular realities and what is perceived as factual
are discussed within those perimeters. I fully
understand this and I am prepared to discuss or
debate on either level. All of your accusations
against the Prophet Muhammad are based on
twisted interpretations of Hadith(Islamic teachings)
which would at best be equated with the Talmud of
the Rabbis. In fact the Talmud openly states many
bizarre teachings such as:
1.Adam had sex with all of the animals in the garden
2.Sex with a 9 year old girl is nothing
These teachings along with many others have been
consistently used to discredit Rabbinical Judaism.
The Prophet Muhammad’s ascension from the holiest
site of the Israelites being the location of the former
Solomonic Temple cleansed and purified the site.
Do you think that it is feasible that the Ishmaelites
brethren to the Israelites would be able to take
control of the Holiest site of the Israelites and
protect it from all images and idols for over 1600
years without the Lord’s blessing? The Rabbis even
call this era the ” Ishmaelite Exile”.
The only reason that male circumcision is accepted
is because of blind faith in the Bible. In factual reality
it remains genital mutilation.
When you complain about Muslims attempting
to convert Americans you remind me of the Jewish
people who complain about Christians trying to
convert Jews. They are afraid of Messianic Jews
and Isaiah 53 and they don’t know what to do.
I am for the right of everyone to preach in an
open and fair market. May the truth win!
I understand I simply used one
New Testament Scripture in regards
to a possible support or twisted rationale
for genital mutilation and Mullah Lodabullah
led us astray. I agree that female
genital mutilation is pagan and barbaric.
As a Qaraim-Muslim I am here to say that
it along with male circumcision finds NO
SUPPORT from the Holy Qaran. My only
point is that Female and Male circumcision
are both of pagan origin and should be considered
GENITAL MUTILATION and as a result every
civilized society should ban both practices prior
to the age of either 18 or 21 when an individual
can make a mature and responsible decision for
consent.
A quick web-search under “Qaraim-Muslims” shows that yours is another vile strand of Islam that seeks to delegitimize Jews, Christians, Israel, the bible and the Torah.
You falsely accuse Jews of having “corrupted scripture” and you rely on Koranic absurdities to prove it.
Mohammedanism mandates FGM in the hadith. Mohammedans genitally mutilate their females because of it.
Your drivel that “it finds NO SUPPORT from the Holy Qaran” is irrelevant.
Shape up or ship out!
Simple answer deport the whole lot of these trash back to your shitholes. who cares what happens ……that will teach you for being in an Evil religon.
I was off-topic, ISHAQ, but I didn’t lead you astray, as a search on ISHAQ AL-SULAIMANI should reveal. You went astray long ago.
Sheikyermani,
Your view on the scriptures
is based on religious prejudice. Many Jews
don’t accept the “Torah” as the original
words of Moses. The academic world definitely
rejects this. Spinoza wrote about this centuries
ago.
Yes, many Mohammadans who have
inherited and incorporated the paganism of
ancient Egypt practice and support Female
Genital Mutilation. Many Jews who have inherited
the paganism of ancient Egypt practice and support
Male Genital Mutilation. Maimonides acknowledged
the true intent of male circumcision in limiting sexual
desire and pleasure. The Greek historian Strabo made
it clear that the Jewish people of his time practiced both
male and female circumcision. The Falasha Jews of Ethiopia
have maintained the duality of circumcision in circumcising
both males and females. Centuries ago the Jewish people
were courageous enough to abandon Female Genital Mutilation.
Now in this era some Jews are stepping forward and taking the
lead in a movement to cleanse Judaism of the barbaric practice
of Male Genital Mutilation. The Jews left the Mohammadans
a great example in abandoning Female Genital Mutilation and
now they must complete the journey of evolution in putting an
end to Male Genital Mutilation(circumcision) as well. Let us all
trust that the Lord designed our bodies in perfection and HE
does not need our help in making alterations.
Jesus tried to put an end to the pagan practice of male
circumcision by creating the metaphoric alternative being
CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART:
ROMANS 2:29 NEW TESTAMENT
‘ But he is a Jew,which is one inwardly; and CIRCUMCISION
is that of the HEART ,in the spirit and NOT in the letter(flesh);
whose praise is not of men but of God.’
Let us ascend with the Messiah Jesus and abandon the trappings
of the flesh. In this case let us stand up to the pagan practices of both
Male and Female Genital Mutilation.
PHILIPPIANS 3:2-3 NEW TESTAMENT
‘ Beware of dogs ,beware of evil workers,beware of the CONCISION
For we are the circumcision,which worship God in the SPIRIT,
and rejoice in Jesus Christ,and have NO confidence in the FLESH.’
Hmmm. Another one that likes to choose certain scriptures from the Bible likes its the flavour of the day.
If this is not mandatory why do innocent childs be hurt.
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Female genital mutilation is a very cruel act done to little girls by religious fanatics. It is a vicious circle perpetuated by a savage culture.
Any Surgery practised on any living form (insect, animal. or human ) with out purpose of (saving it from certain death) is considered a big kharma and hatred against god.
Any Surgery practised with out the patient’s direct permission (unless incapable of) is violation to freedom and rights.
Genital Surgery/mutilation was initially developed for medical purposes only. however… humans used religion and self persuasion
to convince that it’s a must only to satisfy their thirst for sadism and blood. (Blood Shed – Considered as 3rd level SIN against Heaven Rules)
Cutting a penis? that’s sick! cutting a clitoris. even more sick.. it denies both genders from ever knowing normal sex, both never know ultimate of their god given instinct..
Modern Man if remains is ignorant as now shall perish..
How can you ask for god’s love after what you do?
assalam……….
However Ishaq, we do all agree that genital mutilation should not be performed. Now your job is to convince your fellow muslims that your point of view with regard to this issue is indeed the correct one.
With regards to your previous email, if you are capable of understanding that
matters of faith should be discussed only within the context of faith, and that faith is a open problem with many valid solutions, you have made a significant step. Sadly progress in this direction is not openly evident within the muslim community.
American Association of Pediatricians backs off from legalized clit-cutting…..
Dutch mosque: girls must be circumcised
Dhimmitude in Europe advances apace. Hot on the heels of a Swiss court’s reinstating Hani Ramadan to his teaching position despite his advocating stoning for adultery, a mosque in the Netherlands has come out with a pamphlet advocating female genital mutilation.
ISHAQ AL-SULAIMANI,
You are confusing circumcision with genital mutilation.
You say:
Hardly. They do it because of the “sunnah of the prophet”, and its spreading because of that, not because they “inherited it”.
Leave the Jews out of it, Ishaq. Its irrelevant to this post.
Besides,
That’s rubbish. Jews never practiced FGM.
Female genital mutilation should be banned forever from the universe. It’s a fucking cruel practice, oh! god I can’t imagine how is possible in modern civilization. People who are involved with this should be punished.
could you please more educated about islam >>
or you are just a ….. !!!
That is a blasphemy out and if brothers & sisters were smart the Qu’ran says not to divide into sects but to Worship Allah (TWA) alone. This is a straight defimation of our beliefs as Muslims and some definate order needs & will be brought out b/c of this. I know we men need to be cut at birth but the Women have no claim to the knife. Where ever they are doing this we as TRUE believers need to rally and form to protect the health and security of our sisters and break the ignorance in chain with this mishaps.
Hassan
where do you see a lack of education about islam?
I see a very well documented piece about this atrocity, one of many against women by feeble minded men who obviously have no strength be it mentaly or physicly.
If it wasnt for the sheer horror of this practice I would simply state that obviously muslim men are crap in bed and so eliminate the womans heightened ability to enjoy sex so he wont look the failiure he is. Pathetic small minded men with an even smaller penis.
If you people truly believe God created man and woman then why mess with his creation?
It gets on my nerves when people compare cutting out the clitoris with clipping the foreskin. If you’re going to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges, you’d compare cutting out the clitoris with cutting off the tip (glans) of the penis (I wonder how the bastards would like that?); cutting the labia is more like cutting the foreskin. So let’s just get that straight.
From article: ““One, it will stabilize her libido,—… WHAT!? Circumcision has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Hormones and many other things affect your libido. Hormones are affected by the ovaries and pituitary gland. Are they now going to cut out the ovaries (ie. no more Muslim kiddies) and pituitary (which would kill the woman)?
They just don’t feel anything, because there’s nothing left to feel and the nerves are gone along with every part they cut out.
Perhaps this idiot thinks being a zombie stabilizes your libido. That way there are more disposable suicide bombers to go around, huh? Or maybe they need a way to hang onto their women, since they treat them like sh*t to the point where they blow themselves up just to get away:
“Forced Female Suicide” http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=14484
The US is not under Sharia… Maybe Xona will sing a different tune if she’s living under global sharia and getting whipped for leaving the house without a male escourt who is a direct family member. I wonder how she’d like to leave the USA, and go to the Middle East, where the Muslim laws are applied which say that to accuse a man of rape, a woman must have 4 witnesses (if she dares do so, she risks about 100 or so lashings or death for ‘adultery’). You know, the same place where she can get stoned to death for getting pregnant due to being raped. Sheikyermami, nice comment at February 12, 2010 at 4:54 am.
I know this following bit is partly off-topic, but I’m just responding:
ishaq said: “Sex with a 9 year old girl is nothing”. Well, ishaq, us civilized people call it paedophilia and statutory rape, but perhaps that’s OK for you, because you’re not a 9 year old girl and it’s your culture, huh? Says something about your beliefs… http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/03/malaysias-religion-minister-rejects-child-marriage-reform.html It would be nice to see you undergoing an extreme circumcision, then you can sit when you pee and sing soprano.
Sheikyermami said: “You falsely accuse Jews of having “corrupted scripture†and you rely on Koranic absurdities to prove it.”
I agree, Sheikyermami. But that’s Islamic taqiyya for you.
And let’s not forget that not so long ago, a psychopathic sci-fi writer called L Ron Hubbard went around telling people a great way to make money is to “start a religion”. This is why thousands of people are now spending all their money on “audits”, learning about thetans, volcanos and Lord Xenu from Tom Cruise and are getting intimidated or even killed for leaving (apostasy) and speaking out about the dodgy scheme called Scientology. Kind of like honor killings, I suppose. As far as I know, Mohammed only started his statutory rape tradition after his rich sugar-mommy Khadija died.
Apparently Scientologists only learn about Lord Xenu after they’ve forked over a significant amount of money. Oops. I mean progressed far enough. So maybe Xona is just not learned enough when it comes to Islam. But then again, she is just a woman.
“To stop suicide bombing we must focus on the devalued little Muslim girlâ€
http://www.citizen-times.eu/to-stop-suicide-bombing-we-must-focus-on-the-devalued-little-muslim-girl/
Xona also said: “My religion is my first priority, spiritually and practically, and so everything I do is justified by Islam.”
Yes. Doesn’t the Quran say that she’ll be blessed if she helps and supports those who fight and kill infidels? So does this above comment then mean she’d help out suicide bombers over there in her house in the US of A?
According to a female muslim lawyer in Egypt, Israeli girls should be sexually harassed and even raped for being there. According to her, the muslims are too noble to rape (NOT, see below), but if it happened, the Israeli girls would have no right to protest, making them equal to muslim women, because in islam, women are not allowed to fight against being raped, or complain about it.
http://europenews.dk/en/node/33399
“Palestinians rape US peacenik, tell her to shut up”
http://jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/palestinians-rape-us-peacenik-tell-her-to-shut-up/
No wonder the women end up blowing themselves up:
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=14484
The whole religion of Islam disgusts me! They are terrorists who commit violence! This is not a religion of peace.
sorry i respect all this but i’m musleme and all this was old habit and most of muslims now don’t make this now
my sister don’t make this .
i hope to make my you understand my mind 🙂
what? no faith in God that their womens cannot hold them selves for a year wile husband return, look better !sick! anticipation on what”all”
womens are goin to do ,when husband gone .By the way, a look worse!
talking about worse , imagen from day one having a wife that dosent
feel anything making love. I think clitoris protect alot some say is more clean without !yes! maybee the outside but, that get clean with water, i prefer protect and keep my inside clean ,i think clitoris help with that
and more in special when its a life depending of it(pregnant)protects
more stoping from go inside
its like predict what you are goin to do when husband its gone
so lets say predict to be gay or homoxesual what ever you like to call it
and lets make a circuncition on the ring of a guys a–h— come on!
soon, another sick person will call that a– circumcision also.
Islam prevent female genital mutilation
And punish Egypt on the genital Alainat
Although it doesn’t seem any more perverse than circumcision, no matter how hard I try, I can’t justify it. Both acts are unnatural and just plain crazy.
That being said, I am still glad to be circumcised, as it is cleaner and easier maintenance without the foreskin.
We need to stop genital mutilation of perfectly healthy little boys and girls. It’s fucked up to destroy the genitals of children’s body’s that have no say in the matter. Fuck all forms of organized monotheistic religions that promote circumcision of EITHER sex. It’s a cruel, & evil thing to do to your children. If people REALLY loved their children, they’d leave their bodies alone !
from: http://www.jannah.org/genderequity/equityappendix.html
One of the common misconceptions is to connect female circumcision with the teachings of Islam. This appendix addresses the following three questions:
1. WAS FEMALE CIRCUMCISION INTRODUCED BY ISLAM?
While the exact origin of female circumcision is not known, “it preceded Christianity and Islam.” [1] The most radical form of female circumcision (infibulation) is known as the Pharaonic Procedure. This may signify that it may have been practiced long before the rise of Islam, Christianity and possibly Judaism. It is not clear, however, whether this practice originated in Egypt or in some other African countries then spread to Egypt. [2]
It is common knowledge that in some countries like Egypt, female circumcision has been practiced by both Muslims and Christians. [3] In the meantime, this practice is not known in most Muslim countries including Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. [4] This leads to the conclusion that female circumcision is connected with cultural practices rather than with Islam itself as a world religion. It was made clear in the introduction of this book that some cultural practices, whether by Muslims alone or Muslims and others (such as the case with female circumcision), are not part of Islam and in some instances may violate its teachings as embodied in its primary sources, Qur’an and Hadeeth. These sources are examined next.
2. IS THERE ANY AUTHENTIC TEXT IN THE PRIMARY SOURCES OF ISLAM WHICH REQUIRES FEMALE CIRCUMCISION FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS?
No mention of female circumcision is to be found in the Qur’an either directly or indirectly. There is no known Hadeeth which requires female circumcision. Some argued, however, that one Hadeeth, while not requiring female circumcision, appears to accept it: “Circumcision is a commedable act for men (Sunnah) and is an honorable thing for women (Makromah).” [5]
There are two observations on this Hadeeth:
a) A distinction is made between male circumcision which is described in a stronger religious term (Sunnah) [6] or commendable while another weaker description is given to female circumcision (Makromah) which implies no religious obligation.
b) This Hadeeth is of weak authenticity (dha’eef) according to Hadeeth scholars. [7]
There is, however, a more authentic Hadeeth in which Prophet Muhammad (P) is reported to have passed by a woman performing circumcision on a young girl. He instructed the woman by saying:
“Cut off only the foreskin (outer fold of skin over the clitoris; the prepuce) but do not cut off deeply (i.e. the clitoris itself), for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.” [8]
While the Prophet (P) did not explicitly ban this practice, his words project a great deal of sensitivity to the instinctive needs of females and their matrimonal happiness and legitimate enjoyment. Reference to the brightness of the face and to better relationship with the husband are clear indications of his senstivity and compassion. They also stand in contrast to the arguments that female circumcision “controls” the woman’s sexual appetite and hence contributes to sexual morality and virtue in society. It is true that Islam requires adherents of both genders to be chaste. Yet, there is no text in the Qur’an or Sunnah which requires selective curtailment or control of the sexual desire of one specific gender. Furthermore, chastity and virtue are not contingent on “cutting off” part of any sensitive and crucial human organ. Rather, they are contingent on spiritual and moral values of the person and the supporting virtuous environments.
3. SHOULD FEMALE CIRCUMCISION BE BANNED OR RESTRICTED?
Shari’ah (Islamic law) divides actions into five categories; mandatory, commendable, permissible, detestable and strictly forbidden. Female circumcision falls within the category of the permissible. It was probably on this basis that some scholars opposed a sweeping ban of this practice. Before discussing this view, it is important to distinguish between different types of procedures that were and still are called circumcision.
TYPES OF CIRCUMCISION
a) Removal of the hood (or prepuce) of the clitoris. This procedure is, to some degree, analgous to male circumcision since in both cases, no part of the sexual organ is cut off. In both cases also, it is only the foreskin, or outer fold of the skin, which is cut off. Properly done, it is not likely to cause any “matrimonial” problem. While some may call it “sunnah circumcision,” this is their own appellation and not that of the Prophet (P) who used the term Sunnah only in the context of male circumcision.
b) Removal of the entire clitoris (clitorectomy) along with part of the labia minora, which is satured together leaving an opening. This is a form of mutilation.
c) Removal of the entire clitoris, labia minora and medial part of the labia majora, whith both sides of the female organ stitched together leaving a small opeing. This procedure requires tying together the child’s legs of nearly three weeks. [9] It is called the Pharaonic procedure but may as well be called “mutilation”.
It is obvious that the second and third procedures were never mandated, encouraged or even consented to by the Prophet (P). They even violate a known rule in Shari’ah prohibiting the cutting off of any part of the human body except for unavoidable reasons (e.g. medical treatment, trimming nails or hair, or for an explicitly specified reason such as male circumcision). Such necessity or need does not exist in female circumcision. Nothing justifies genital mutilation. In fact, no mutilation is allowed by Islam even in the battlefield. Not only are these two procedures unjustifiable, they are brutal, inhumane and in violation of Islam.
The remaining question then relates to the first procedure. Some (e.g. the late Rector of Al-Azhar University, Sheikh Gad Al-Haque) argued that since the Prophet (P) did not ban female circumcision, it falls within the category of the permissble. As such, there is no ground for a total ban on it. However, it is within the spirit of Shari’ah to restrict something that is permissible if discovered to be harmful. For example, all fish are permisible to eat. Should a particular type of fish be proven to be poisonous or harmful, it could be banned based on a known Shari’ah rule (Al-dharar Yozaal), or harm must be removed. The real issue then boils down to whether the first procedure is harmful or not. Granted that such a procedure may not be seriously damaging like the other two, it may be argued that it is painful, traumatic and often performed in an unhygienic setting leading to infection and other problems. [10] Even if the procedure is performed by a physician, it is so delicate that not all physicians master it. [11]
It should be noted that some people oppose female circumcision as part of their opposition to any “tradition” as old and invalid. This is as inappropriate as practicing female circumcision because it is a “tradition,” regardless of its consistency with Islam or not. The practice should be evaluated objectively, on the basis of
a)whether it is required religiously or not
b) whether there are medical and other relevant issues to be considered in evaluating this practice.
While any form of female circumcision is already legally banned in some countries [12] and may be banned in others in the future, it is not suggested here that this is the only option. In societies and cultures where the practice is well entrenched and socio-cultural pressures for it are great [13], abrupt legal banning may not end the practice. It may cause it to be practiced “underground” and under more problematic circumstances. However the problem is serious enough that some action is needed. A starting point, perhaps, is to begin by educationg the masses in countries where female circumcision is commonly practiced. All possible media should be used in the process. The contents of this appendix may serve as an outline of such an educational program, or it is so hoped. In any case, the conclusion which appears to be certain is that there is no single text of the Qur’an and Hadeeth which requires [14] female circumcision.
“Common misconceptions,” eh?
This is a dumb straw-man argument to blame something else.
First of all, its not “circumcision” but mutilation, second: FGM spreads around the world BECAUSE OF ISLAM. The rest of your drivel simply confirms the title of the article, which is Female genital mutilation “is part of the Sunna of the Prophetâ€.
* In fact, no mutilation is allowed by Islam even in the battlefield.
allah and its false prophet appear to disagree:
[sura 8.12, blasphemous, murderous koran] “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”
* Striking off heads and fingertips (mutilation), not to mention casting terror, is evil allah’s express will, & its followers are only too willing to accommodate it.
Hey,
whatever i am about to say isnt about specifically the exact topic BUT to THOSE who is commenting against islam in light of this topic.
Now, who am i? what religion am i? isnt important for all those specific people to know who is giving offtopic straight bad comment to all those muslim folks like: “popanator” and the “another infidel”. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS GUYS, LEAVE THE MUSLIM FOLKS ALONE. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN IT THEN NO IS FORCING YOU TO DO SO, YOU GUYS JUST THINK URE JUST TOO SMART AND HAVE LEARNT ALOT. BUT TO ME U JUST SOUND LIKE IDIOTS TAKING OUT BITS OF INFO FROM MANY SITES U SEE AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER AND CREATING YOU MIND_BLOWING COMMENTS. WHY DONT YOU GUYS JUST DO WHAT YOU GUYS ARE BEST TO DO IN ONLINE, WATCHING PORN AND JERKING YOURSELF OFF. YOU GUYS AND ME HAVE NO IDEA HOW THE PROPHET IS AND THE CHANGES HE BROUGHT AND OF HIS PERSONALITIES AND ALL. What is better with us? you tell me? ure talking about all the bad things about islam isnt that the same we are also doing in usa or western or whatever.
first you say that idiot that is stabilizing their libido like zombies, so whats better with us? men and womena have all their rights, and sense working together, they start to enjoy sex mostly barely legal and whole of their age till they get marry they enjoy and have sex even sleep with so many that even they themselves dont remember or with how many, maybe thats what you mean is the RIGHT. and even after marriage there many cases where when partner is away the spouse cheats, this goes with friends, home workers, office workers, like this so on… what is this? is the right? we are behaving no less than like animals here.
then you talk abt rape being in islamic culture? tell in where and and which culture it isnt not? here in usa our feloow people are doing even more.. and even in japan the rape cases are so high.. but when a muslim did it then you guys have the nerve to shout abt it to the world and label them as crimnals… come one u have to be more educated and open eyed than that. in here and even in europe fathers or mothers they are doing it with their own children wheter forced or not forced, what is this the right you talk abt? and if forced cant that be classified as rape? sure if any other does its not much a big deal than if a muslim does. just rember there are all sorts of people out their. and even muslims may commit crimes but that doesnt mean its in their religious ways or it doesnt mean we can label islam or the muslims as crimnals or terrorists.
then ive been hearing all about this suicide bombings, come on man, its abt time to stop teasing those guys saying like that, who doesnt? yea muslims do suicide by detonating themself for some reason, but as ive know its not accpeted in islam. and leave the bombing and lets talk abt suicide, there are suicide cases all over the world, some for really pathetic reasons whereas some really for meaningless idiotic reasons they give up their life being hopless. even in here it happens often. besides with what do you think those poor guys at afghan or palestine can fight back when cruel and unfair people from israel throw down their bombs and give air attacks. i rmbr in the last war aginst ghaza and israel they killed several innocents and children without any reason or heart, while some poor guys did the best they can by suiciding themself. israel was doing like that against UN and the whole world but the world was watching and they could do very little, that is also after many damages and many lives lost. if a muslim country produces weapon the world will uspect them as devoloping nuclear weapons and then start a war, whereas its ok for some other big countries to develop such weapons and intentionally dominate the small countries, yet you talk about equality and human rights??!!! i praise our current president Obama. and also to let you note that in islam i havnt come across in anywhere that mentioned about being the highest of power or dominating the whole of humanity.
then you talk about some of your idiotic false findings, truly your intentions are not very right i can see, i smell clearly some laying down anger on muslims from you both. what? sure what they did on sep 11 isnt right. but what about how our own soldiers have been treating to them even before sep 11. what they did to some innocent litte children of afgahn on the last war after consuming drugs, and what they did to innocent iraq muslim women and men both in the public and in locked up cells, they raped iraq woman, had force sex, and they removed all of the clothes of both women and men in public and in cells had them tied down, shot them, pissed them, piled them, sat on top of them… COME ON!!! what do you call this? if its from us USA isnt it terrorism or TORTURE??!!
DAAAAAMMMNNN!!!!…..
people like you shouldnt write on things like this to spread false intentions, just live your life and let others live. so just shut the hell up.
i dont care about what the topic in here is about and neither im giving side to muslims, but I am laying out the true picture of the world of whats happened and whats happening and i mean REAL TRUE PICTURE, this is what i call not right! This is what humanity most westerners are talking about and everyone this is the REALITY. The strong always tries to dominate the weak whereas themselves they are saying all are equal and this humanity.
What a load of crap! Female circumcision was in way before Islam came. And to say that it is part of the Islamic faith is obsurd!! Ask any woman from countries in Africa (including Egypt) and they will tell you it was and still is (in some countries there) part of their culture REGARDLESS of their religion.
You are just using this site to propogate hatred against Muslims, just as Hitler did with the Jews. People arent all dumb and stupid if they want to know the truth the internet will lead them to it, well at least one can only hope that they will search the truth.
Ivana, are you dyslexic or do you have reading comprehension problems?
Did you read the title of the article? I repeat it once more for you: “Female genital mutilation “is part of the Sunna of the Prophet‖ do you get it now?
Besides: Muslims are not Jews. Muslims are Jew-killers. Historically, they had excellent relations with the Nazis. In fact, the Islamic Handschar Brigades killed at least 400 000 Jews on behalf of the Mufti Al Husseini, Hitlers personal friend.
LOl so you are genuinely telling me that all Muslims must be blamed for this. How stupid do you think your average reader is??
Judging by the comments I’d say you can’t be blamed for being a patronising ZIo shill, not the most discerning crowd is it.
You’ve gone through hoops and hoops to try and blame it on Islam. It doesn’t work and I persaonally know quite a few Muslims actually who were flabbergasted at being associated with anything like this.
You quoted nearly all religions and nationalities. For few years I worked in Makkah as well as in Kuwait where you could sample women of all religions and I found that only Egyptians, Sudanese, and Ethiopians have this habit of circumcision……
* Makkah is ‘Muslims Only’- how this nutbag can claim that she could ’sample women of all religions’ is a mystery. …
erm it’s kind of obvious she was talking about Kuwait. I worked there on a cotract and indeed their are a lot of nationalities around and dare I say it “religions”.
And it is a fact (you obviously don’t want to accept) that this vile practice is linked to a lot of AFRICAN countries.
I see why you insult Ivana, she was a little close to the bone there no?
Stop spreading hate. The fact that you use all that suffering of those poor little girls gleefully to spread hatred and smug (Zionist?) propaganda says a lot.
And nice photoshopping Sheikhyour mami. Though corny.
You fool no one.
Personally* contract*
Adam, thanks again for confirming that you suffer from a reading-comprehension disability. Seems to come with being Muslim. No, I don’t try to fool anyone. We all know that Allah is the best of foolers, and you are trying to deceive, just like your prophet. Nice try, but you failed!
Lets try again:
1.) Female genital mutilation “is part of the Sunna of the Prophetâ€
That’s what your co-religionists are telling us, and they do it because “its sunnah”, not because of some black African tribes.
2.) “You’ve gone through hoops and hoops to try and blame it on Islam. It doesn’t work”
I didn’t have to go anywhere. The evidence is in black and white. Provided by your co-religionists. What doesn’t work is your dumb attempts at pointing the finger at something else.
3.) Ivana said she worked in Mecca, yet you claim its “obvious” that she worked in Kuwait.
How come you know better than Ivana?
4.) “Stop spreading hate”
Point to one item above that “spreads hate” and I take the whole website off! It is you and your people who cause the suffering of these poor little girls. Your falsehood and your hate is poisoning the whole world.
Instead of helping us to get rid of FGM and the part of the sunnah that demands that you mutilate little girls you are perpetuating FGM and direct your hate towards us.
Adam (why does every other Mohammedan poster use a Jewish moniker?) tell us: will you have your daughter(s) mutilated because of “the sunnah of the prophet?”
This sounds suspiciously like…..????? We will have to follow progress of the case.
NSW doctor removed woman’s genitalia without consent, court told
Lisa Davies From: The Daily Telegraph November 03, 2010 2:37PM
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/nsw-doctor-removed-carolyn-de-waegenaires-genitalia-without-consent-court-told/story-e6frf7l6-1225947308903
The doctor is being referred to as “GSR” – can’t think of any typical muzz names that might match…
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/doctor-cut-out-clitoris-court-told-20101103-17e1m.html
Looks like it wasn’t a muzz:
http://mybiz.optus.com.au/regional_news/220797/southeastnsw/inquiry-to-investigate-genital-mutilation-doctor.html
[The independent inquiry into New South Wales health system has confirmed it will look into serious misconduct allegations made against former doctor Graeme Reeves. ]
Belgium
Female circumcision: a growing threat here
Associated Press
Sat 30/10/2010 –
Some 8,000 women have been circumcised in Belgium or are in danger of becoming a victim of this practice. The figure is an estimate by researchers at the Tropical Medicine Institute in Antwerp.
The largest number of victims live in Brussels and Antwerp.
Female circumcision is a form of mutilation of the female genitalia. The practice is most prevalent in tropical Africa, especially in countries with an Islamic background.
Few reliable figures are available. Belgian research dating from 2003 came to the conclusion that 3,000 women had undergone female circumcision in this country, though the figure did not take account of women who had acquired Belgian nationality and asylum seekers.
The latest research does and also includes the daughters of women who have been circumcised born during the past twelve years. This is because they are at risk of undergoing this form of mutilation.
Researchers have identified 1,190 girls under five years of age who are at risk as well as 1,690 girls in the 15 to 20 age category who are in danger of undergoing the practice during a holiday in their mother’s country of origin.
An estimated 5,000 women are believed to have actually undergone female circumcision in Belgium.
The research at the Tropical Medicine Institute was commissioned by the Belgian Health Ministry.
Nice Blog, but the quality of some of the comments is abysmal!
This is just wrong
2nd of all to the people who posted these images, where is the respect for that female? Have you no shame? So caught up in explaining what is religious and what is not, People have lost what Islam really is. I would make the request to remove those pictures from this site out of respect to the women.
While I’m also disgusted by these practices and Islam in general, I just want to point out that calling FGM islamic is incorrect. It began as an African tribal practice that eventually got into Islam when Africans began converting. Regardless though, it’s a painful and cruel procedure that needs to stop.
please don’t insult Islam….if you don’t agree with female’s circumcised is part of the Sunna of the Prophet just leave it..but do you know why it is a Sunna?because if clitoris is one of female’s libido..
it is the way to reduce female’s libido to avoid from vices…it not cut it off like picture above but just trim some of it.. usually,circumcised do when the female still baby..because, it will hurt her so much as grown up girl circumcise…
p/s: sorry if my english not too good
* please don’t insult Islam…
Take it up with allah, and tell it to stop insulting human beings, and God the creator. Don’t worry about your english, worry about allah and its false prophet and what they are doing to your precious soul.
To those who have arguee that FGM is not mandated by Islam i.e. not in the Koran, Hadith etc. then should speak up and tell their fellow brothers and sisters to stop the barbaric practice regardless of where and when it originated.
The fact is it is still being carried out in most islamic countries and it seems that it is still being promoted by the moslems people e.g. one of the photos above is about an FGM clinic in Indonesia, so how did it get to Indonesia if not through Islam?
You disgusting, dirty, filthy, cruel, vile, barbaric, torturous, sadistic pigs. My apologies to pigs.
While female circumcision may have originated from Africa, the whole point of this article is that this practice was SUPPORTED by Muhammad. Can’t some of the posters here see that?
41 percent of Kurdish women have suffered female genital mutilation
“Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)” — ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3
We’re told that female genital mutilation is an African tribal practice, that it has nothing to do with Islam.
“Government Says 41 Percent of Kurdish Women Are Circumcised,” by Ari Osman for Rudaw.net, December 1 (thanks to JW):
ERBIL, Iraqi Kurdistan: A survey by the Kurdistan Minstiry of Health shows that 41 percent of women have gone under the practise of female genuital mutilation (FGM).
The survey was carried out in July this year. The results of the survey were announced during a campaign to raise awareness on violence against women in Kurdistan earlier this week.
Part of the campaign has focused on FGM. The survey by the government shows that mothers are the main party responsible for forcing their daughters experience the painful ritual and then grandmothers and fathers.
The survey’s results show that none of the participants in Dohuk, Kurdistan’s smallest of the three provinces, were circumcised while the highest rate of FGM was in Sulaimai.
Erbil, Kurdistan region’s capital, came between Sulaimani and Dohuk. According to the survey, most of the women were circumcised while they were under five years old.
Jamil Ali Rashid, the director general of health affairs at the ministry of health, said “the survey’s results are totally correct and credible because the participants were given clear questions and special teams examined the women who participated in the survey after their consent was secured.”
A campaign to end FGM practices in Kurdistan was launched in February 2010 by 51 non-governmental organizations.
Dear sheikyermami,
Your name devalues anything you have to say. Personally, I know that female circumsion is not an Islamic practice, neither mentioned in the quran nor fully addressed in the Hadith. It is a terrible practice that has existed before Islamic society. Please get off our cocks
Proving once again the inferiority of islam. what is wrong you people?
Oh MY GOSH! HOW Can this be? We as Americans are so far from perfect here. Yet, when I see these women who agree to this for themselves or for their Daughters only because they believe it is the right thing to do based on religious beliefs, I am ILL!
As for cheating on each other-America is full of cheaters. Both Male and Female…
Maybe this is where Islam religion feels they R doing good. If F.G.M. removes All desire for sex in Women- We as American women would stop having sex after a while…. Our Husbands would play hell getting any! They(Our Men) would resort to “Cat Houses” where Women weren’t “fixed”! There would be more trouble for Us as Americans than it seems to be for them…. But, not forgetting that We are talking about “Male dominated” societies!
I Am All together and Ever so Thankful that I live in America and Am an American!!!! My body is intact and I Am able to have an “Orgasm” with My Significant other! It almost makes Me want to go wake Him up and Have some good love making right now! For those who cannot have even 1 orgasm- ever because of a self choice of F.G.M., You don’t know what You R missing! If You did, U would go crazy just knowing what Your’e missing out on!!! The Hubby should go crazy “Knowing” He will never be able to please His Wife in that very private, intimate and special way!!!
America being so free unwittingly allows these People and their practices into Our Country! We can allow the People but, this is America! This is Not a place to mutilate Our Women or Our Children intentionally! I cannot agree with this behavior even though I know there would be less pregnant teens in America if We practiced this F.G.M. and Probably less abortions by all ages of women in America!
It will probably become a practice every where around the World some day to control populations, sexually transmitted diseases and such… First it will be illegal. because it wasn’t Our idea. Then, it will be submitted as a way of controlling over populated areas with little to no food… etc…
The way of the World, go figure…
This might serve well to decrease the Muslim population, and should actually be encouraged. Tragic sentiment, yes, I’m afraid so. Like we “need” more Muslims encouraged to have sex. If only they would extend an aggressive male circumcision to include the balls.
As for the complaints about “showing these pictures”, I think you’re just a bunch of Muslim hypocrites! You have no compunction about showing the heads being severed from the infidels, and pasted all over Youtube and the like, do you? Of course not, as those infidels are enroute to hell in your Quran. What a loving book that is (makes me puke), and surely must be disdainful to the real God Almighty.
So complaining about these graphic mutilation photos of Muslim girls should be exposed for what it is, the terror of Islam. Yours is NOT a religion of peace, you are heathen! You are the non-believers who have perverted the original sacred writings and created something Satanic. You are deceived, and your punishment awaits you for eternity.
oh yeah…you’d like the photos removed :
Got nothing to do with respect for the victim…it’s YOU covering ya muslim tracks.Muslims are completely void of acceptance of other religeons , so i suggest a massive revolution : refuse acceptance of islams law , it’s not welcome in australia ya blood thirsty apes.
Quote:
You have no compunction about showing the heads being severed from the infidels, and pasted all over Youtube and the like, do you?
end quote.
Severed heads and Revelation 20.
Quote:
Circumcision is part of the Sunna of the Prophet. We used to bring a daya, and she would circumcise the children, but when the role of the daya was abolished, we stopped. Now we take our children to the doctor, and he circumcises them.
end quote.
FGM is an Islamic practice.
There are no non-Muslim cultures that do it.
End of story.
Islam mocks women.
Islam debases love– defines it as rape.
Islam destroys all joy.
Your Allah is the devil.
Your religion is profane.
Your prophet is false.
Hahahahhaha that fAiry got destroyed about saying thats muslim laww 😀
Hahha OWNED !
Women join fight against female circumcision (maybe?)
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_international/female_circumcision/index.html?SITE=TXMCA
Christianity is FAKE!!!
THIS IS ALL YELLOW JOURNALISM!
A bunch of fake nonbelievers and Christian/Jewish/Catholic hell-houn-nut-rapists trying to talk down on the fastest growing religion in the world.
Have fun in hell folks!
🙂
* Christianity is FAKE!!!
“knowing this first, that there shall come at the close of the days mockers with mocking, walking according to their own lusts” (2 Peter 3:3)
Not so much talking down islam or its growth, as warning of its fate. Rejecting God’s plan of salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ has consequences in this life, and in the next. islam is unravelling, even as it gets the numbers, and will be gathered against the Holy Land and destroyed. The task for Israel will be to first locate and mark the smelly bodies and body parts, and then to dispose of them in mass graves at the appointed place – Hamona.
This practise is not human , the reasoning behind it just shows how insecure the male of the human race is , if god gave a woman a clitoris then no man or woman has the right to alter that , these people alarm me the dark ages are still with us . How do educate such people of low intelligence not easily i fear, men are weak and so it will continue
fgm is not a part of islam.. im a muslim and i have never come across such a law, reading about this practice made me cry… Plz keep this thing in mind that Hadith_ the sayings of the Holy Prophet(P.B.U.H) have been changed over the years by various people… They were Muslims too by religion but they were not true to Islam.. They were what we call Munafiqs.. People who showed that they were with the Prophet(P.B.U.H) but in reality they were His biggest enemies.. Hence the Hadith has no authenticity… FGM is barbaric and a disgusting practice!!! Yes males are circumcized but females? hell NO!!! Quran is the ultimate guide.. its a beautiful book that spreads the message of love and humanity.. to all the muslims who practice FGM plz this is not in ISLAM!!! n to all the other people plz don humiliate the religion The Prophet(P.B.U.H) n Allah without any knowledge.. Just for once read the Quran just one line.. u will realize its beautiful.. God bless
* Just for once read the Quran just one line.. u will realize its beautiful..
Here’s a beautiful line, syeda, & this one has allah’s fingerprints all over it – definitely part of islam – the real deal, genuine, ridgey-didge (etc):
[Sura 8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
* Truly beautiful, if one sees beauty in the droppings of a psychopathic terrorist.
Medical benefits of female circumcision
Could you explain me what is the medical benefit of girl’s circumcision?.
Praise be to Allaah.
Just as Allaah has created mankind, He has also guided them that which is best suited to their interests in this world and in the Hereafter, so He sent them Messengers and revealed Books to guide mankind to what is good and urge them to follow it, and to teach them what is evil and warn them against it.
Islam may enjoin or forbid something and the people – or most of them – may not be able to see the wisdom behind this command or prohibition. In that case we are obliged to obey the command or heed the prohibition and to have certain faith that the laws of Allaah are all good, even if we cannot see the wisdom behind them.
Circumcision is one of the Sunnahs of the fitrah, as is indicated by the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, plucking the armpit hairs, cutting the nails, and trimming the moustache.” narrated by al-Bukhaari (5889) and Muslim (257).
Undoubtedly with regard to the Sunnahs of the fitrah, some of the wisdom behind them is obvious, and that includes circumcision. There are clear benefits to it which we should pay attention to and understand the wisdom behind it.
In the answer to question no. 9412 we have discussed circumcision, how it is to be done and the ruling on it. In the answer to question no. 7073 we have explained the health and shar’i benefits of circumcision for males.
Circumcision is prescribed for both males and females. The correct view is that circumcision is obligatory for males and that it is one of the symbols of Islam, and that circumcision of women is mustahabb but not obligatory.
There are reports in the Sunnah which indicate that circumcision for women is prescribed in Islam. In Madeenah there was a woman who circumcised women and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.†Narrated by Abu Dawood (5271), classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
Female circumcision has not been prescribed for no reason, rather there is wisdom behind it and it brings many benefits.
Mentioning some of these benefits, Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi says:
The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid, so they develop an unpleasant odour which may lead to infections of the vagina or urethra. I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision.
Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse.
Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain.
Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a kind of inflammation.
Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire.
Then Dr al-Ghawaabi refutes those who claim that female circumcision leads to frigidity by noting:
Frigidity has many causes, and this claim is not based on any sound statistics comparing circumcised women with uncircumcised women, except in the case of Pharaonic circumcision which is where the clitoris is excised completely. This does in fact lead to frigidity but it is contrary to the kind of circumcision enjoined by the Prophet of mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said: “Do not destroy†i.e., do not uproot or excise. This alone is evidence that speaks for itself, because medicine at that time knew very little about this sensitive organ (the clitoris) and its nerves.
From Liwa’ al-Islam magazine, issue 8 and 10; article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat (circumcision of girls).
The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view):
For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups.
Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:
It takes away excessive libido from women
It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce.
It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections
It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system.
In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:
With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.
And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A
* And Allaah knows best.
allah is doomed to the lake of fire, and probably knows it by now.
The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)
Mullah Lodabullah… Plz quote the name of the sura…. uv got the translation wrong.. iv read the Quran and there is no such verse.. none at all.. where have u read this?? plz tell so that i can tell u the correct translation… look the problem here is not religion.. it is this practice that some people perform forcefully on females.. why drag religion in this?? why humiliate Islam.. im telling u that FGM is not a part of Islam… i am a muslim and i feel good about it becoz my religion is practicle.. why do i write here?? after so many people throw insults at me, at my religion?? who likes that? no one… i do this becoz i love my religion. n it hurts me wen people have wrong things to say about it… ul probably insult it again but all i can do is pray to Allah to help me bear it n help me show wat Islam really is…
u call muslims blood thirsty??? dont u see wen drone attacks in Pakistan kill thousands of innocent people..!!! didnt u see that lil pakistani boy who lost both his legs and his arms and an eye in the drone attack!!! HUH!! wat was that?? wat would u call that!! killin people, takin over countries for oil!!! yeah right.. thats cool… but we all love to talk about muslims… u guys love to talk about others.. look at ur own hands.. ul find em covered with blood!!! listen to those mothers cryin for their dead children, ul dont get nightmares everyday for the rest of ur life.. wakeup people coz ur no good too.. we all are bad..
Egypt: At least 9 dead as army fires live ammo at Christians, “Muslim youths” firebomb monastery
Maz,
Again, muslims use thier religion to practise FGM. Go yell and them. Given that you are all dickless we have not even bothered trying to stand on your genetalia, you silly muslim parasite.
* Mullah Lodabullah… Plz quote the name of the sura…. uv got the translation wrong.. iv read the Quran and there is no such verse.. none at all.. where have u read this??
Here:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=267454
The Accessions
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Of course, you could try here:
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura8.html
[8:12] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: “I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger.”
In any event, the Biblical God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) will deal with allah, its false prophet, and ultimately its followers.
First the “bad news”:
“And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
(Hebrews 9:27)
And now the “good news”:
“So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and to them that look for him he will appear the second time without sin to salvation.”
(Hebrews 9:28)
islam is doomed.
* u call muslims blood thirsty???
allah seems to be inspiring their bloodthirstiness, and allah supposedly knows best, Syeda.
Here’s some of its bloodthirsty droppings:
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
* allah using muslims as puppets to do its wet work:
[8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
(and so on – a charnel house, and allah isn’t particularly concerned if it is muslims juicing muslims – every day is a bloodfest, until allah is put out of business permanently)
yeah ur right Mullah Lodabullah… u no everything… u have all the understanding of every religion esp Islam… ur a scholar.. a fountain of knowlegde….. ur so broad minded!!!! WOW… keep beleivin in what u believe.. ur life will be amazing…. bless ur heart.. its so full of tolerance and compassion!!! u inspire people… truely
No syeda, I do not know everything, but I do have a well-noted koran, together with the online versions to cross-check, so it is no problem dealing with false claims about translation and the like. Why not take the trouble to read allah’s hate manifesto, and then contrast it with God’s plan of salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ.
You will not find much tolerance and compassion with allah and its false prophet – quite the opposite, as you should see with muslims offing each other every day for allah.
u no wat im not arguing with u… u have ur faith i have mine… neither i nor u will change our believes… and nor will u stop disgracing my religion, as its quite clear… Jesus Christ was one of the prophets of Allah and v have great respect for Him… One day In shaa Allah i will have enough knowledge to answer u in a dignified manner… for it is wrong to quote without proper knowledge… but this much i do no that i should respect every human being.. no matter wat religion he or she belongs to.. the verses uv quoted r 100% correctly translated but the prob is that uv read the translation only… u dont no the history behind it.. n i will study it in detail n il give u all the answers… yeah u can start typin in more profanities now…
plus there are bad people everywher in every religion… a murderer has no faith or compassion… relating or blaming that to a religion or faith is totally pointless
Jesus is the Son of God.
Respect him now– as the Son of God!
syeda, you earlier wrote: “Mullah Lodabullah… Plz quote the name of the sura…. uv got the translation wrong.. iv read the Quran and there is no such verse.. none at all.. where have u read this??”
And now you wrote: “… the verses uv quoted r 100% correctly translated …”
You got caught out lying, so fall back to another muslim dodge about “history”. Take it up with your filthy “god” and its false prophet and get back to me with allah’s response. Trolls have only a limited shelf life, and you have passed yours.
iv read the Quran in Urdu douch bag so naturally the english translation varies, like i said u dont no the history behind the versus coz uv not bothered to look into it naturally … u no wat forget it idiots like u r not worth talkin to… ur surronded by walls all around and u r like the deaf and dumb.. u have no where to go… and eib Dont force ur beliefs on others… and both of u, the way u talk show what kind of morals u have and wat dirty levels u stand on…
Last call syeda:
start making sense, stay on topic or you’re outta here. And please use a spell checker!
Christianity is FAKE!!!
THIS IS ALL YELLOW JOURNALISM!
A bunch of fake nonbelievers and Christian/Jewish/Catholic hell-houn-nut-rapists trying to talk down on the fastest growing religion in the world.
Have fun in hell folks!
This is a horrifically biased perspective. I became enraged reading it.
If you look at statistics; it is NOT a religious thing – Christians and Muslims alike do it.
You should be enraged reading it.
But you obviously didn’t read it, otherwise you wouldn’t make such a dumb statement.
Try again!
Christians DONT do it!!!
Moo-Ham-Head ( Piss be upon him) was a Pedophile pig.
Gaja, you have to change that to (pig or dog piss be upon him). I can’t believe this crazy person Syeda who, even when given chapter and verse and translations, STILL says, “It’s not islam(I refuse to capitalize it)”. It’s not even a religion, but an ideology with it’s own laws and customs that are in direct opposition to Western values. I now equate islam with bringing a venomous snake into your home(UK, US, etc). Treating it kindly and petting it does not work, it is still venomous and bites. Any reasonable person would immediately remove it (at the least) from their “home”. To do any less puts everyone in jeopardy.
Dear sheikyermami
*Shia View
Foster states that female circumcision is rumoured to be common amongst Shi’ite communities ruled by Hezbollah in Lebanon
I stopped reading at that point because it is just absurd, please if you don’t mind validate this “Shia view” and I question many of your other “sources”. I must admit as a muslim myself, I do regretfully question the surface skin knowledge unfortunately many other radical “muslims” hold, I do not call them muslims. I strongly disagree with FGM and I know with 100% certainty Shia Islam condemns such actions. Al-hamdullah Islam is the fastest growing religion and your site sorry to say doesn’t really change anything =]
p.s people use religion as a means of political gain (e.g. constantine, Al-Qaeda) and they do not care if their actions contradict their very own religion (the vatican, Osama Bin laden (also a secret FBI agent) )
I do not mean to offend anyone, my apologies if i did
Thank you
* I do not call them muslims.
The false prophet Mohammed calls them muslims, and with everyone being born muslim according to the false prophet Mohammed, it is no surprise that islam is the fastest growing religion.
When God destroys it, islam will be the fastest declining religion.
islam is the fastest growing ideology that will be exterminated in the coming years!!! NO SURRENDER TO THESE PAEDOPHILE FOLLOWERS!!!!
* The false prophet Mohammed calls them muslims, and with everyone being born muslim according to the false prophet Mohammed, it is no surprise that islam is the fastest growing religion.
Yes indeed everybody is born a Muslim, however, we as humans have something called free will, whether you decide to be a christian, jew, polytheist or an atheist that is you exercising free will and we can say that its the fastest growing religion because we as humans are exercising our FREE WILL, would you like me clarify that even more for you?
anyways I sense alot of tension here regarding Muhammad as a false prophet from my fellow Christians, surely you know the story of Jesus Christ, now do you also know the story of Horus….let me HINT out some particular points that will definitely make you shut your mouths and re-think whatever you decide to post on the internet about Prophet Muhammad, the greatest man that ever stepped foot on earth.
Some parallels between Horus and Jesus Christ:
1. Horus born of a virgin. Jesus born of a virgin.
2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. Jesus was fostered by Joseph.
3. Horus was of royal descent. Jesus was of royal descent.
4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east†bearing gifts.
5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. The birth of Jesus announced by angels.
6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.
7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.
8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.
9. Horus had 12 followers. Jesus had 12 disciples.
10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.
11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus – the “us†on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar†which was the name given to Osiris.
12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet†and “Anu†which translates “the house of Anuâ€. The ‘y’ on the end of bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.
13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. Jesus was crucified.
14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixtion. Jesus was crucified with two thieves.
15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].
16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. Jesus was “said†to resurrected after over a period of three days.
17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.
18. Horus was given the titel KRST which means “anointed one†Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed oneâ€
Can’t make any sense out of it, but if that’s what you believe, go right ahead, Kawthar!
Christianity is not even a religion anymore! its been altered to suit certain peoples political agendas that today its lost touch with its original roots.
Typical mohammedan claptrap, Kawthar.
Prove it!
*Typical mohammedan claptrap, Kawthar.
Prove it!
Wow you are an absolute douche! The sources on your website are ridiculous, first of all if you want to make a scholarly point then you definitely don’t use WIKIPEDIA! your website is full of cracks that leak out lies.
*Can’t make any sense out of it, but if that’s what you believe, go right ahead, Kawthar!
I cant make any sense out of this website but if thats what you believe then go ahead, you fool!
Im sorry to say guys but Sheikyermami is a failure to mankind. He/She/It uses propaganda to make nonsense points that not even an animal would agree with the stupidity you post, your sources don’t even match up, someone who uses wikipedia as a “scholarly” source what can I say? damn get your head out of the hole mate!
You still haven’t proven my initial question..? Wait hold on your sources are botched! try doing REAL research like normal humans do and not just grab one line from here and there.
Have a nice day!
The sources you find on this website are from Koran and hadith/sunna, Kawthar.
If you have a claim to make, base it on substance, not on personal attacks. You are an excremental failure, Kawthar.
* 13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. Jesus was crucified.
According to allah, channeled via its false prophet, Jesus Christ was not crucified – (Sura 4:157)
It is suras such as this that allah uses to send its followers to Hell. Forever.
Mullah Lodabullah you do not make sense =S exactly Isa (jesus) was NOT crucified you douche! Please do not speak when you do not have anything intelligent to say. The whole Jesus theory was copied from the egyptians.
Substance, Kawthar.
BS is cheap.
Read the conditions for posting here. You blew it on the double!
Oh and using wikipedia is based on Sunnah Hadith and Quran?
And using different lines from different places to make a point? Please if you really are an intelligent person then you would know that some of your hadiths on your website are void and yet you use them as truth?
Go back to school and learn how to do PROPER research
Tell me Kawthar, do you have a problem with Sunnah Hadith and Quran?
Tell me, Kawathar: which of the hadiths on our website are void?
Is a hadith false when it is correctly quoted by wikipedia?
Yeah I do have a problem with Sunnah Hadith because the person that makes up 1/4 of Bukhari and Shahih Muslim unfortunately is Abu Hurayra, who is known to be a liar and fraud, a person who narrates over 4000 hadiths and has only spent 4 years with the prophet, somewhere between 10-15 hadiths a day! wow…
And I am building up my case and I will definitely post it in the next couple of hours.
In any law of referencing using Wikipedia is a NO NO! why? cause people just put their two sense in and no one will know…so please use REAL sources.
“Abu Hurayra, who is known to be a liar and fraud”-
Really?
Kawthar: all of Islam is from a liar and a fraud. It doesn’t matter who quotes it, wiki or dickie.
Has it been abrogated by any muslim scholar of standing? Ever?
No. So what else is new?
* BS is cheap.
And Kawthar has it in abundance. A gross surfeit even.
Unfortunately yes I do have a problem with you using sunni hadith cause Shahih Bukhari and Muslim narrate Abu Hurayas hadiths, a man who spent 4 years with the prophet and narrates approx 4000 hadiths, thats well over 10 hadiths a day!Â
I am building up my case and will post in the next couple of hours
Mullah Lodabullah
your just a self-loathing leech who cant think for themselves! stay out of it if you dont have anything intelligent to say.
Thanks for blocking my comments, but I found a way!
and Mullah, your a self-loathing leech who cant think for themselves! You dont deserve my respect and should keep your mouth sealed cause you sound like a fool!
and Mullah, you a self-loathing leech who cant think for themselves! You dont deserve my respect and should keep your mouth sealed cause you sound like a fool!
I am going to stick with the topic here FGM.
Now I would like to clear any misconceptions with Islam and FGM (which Sheikyermami, an uneducated fool links it as an entity)
Then I will focus on christianity FGM and the fake God Jesus ( at a later date if sheikyermami hasnt banned me)
Lastly, your sources
one of the common misconceptions is to connect female circumcision with the teachings of Islam, like my fellow here yermami has….
1. WAS FEMALE CIRCUMCISION INTRODUCED BY ISLAM?
While the exact origin of female circumcision is not known, “it preceded Christianity and Islam.” The most radical form of female circumcision (infibulation) is known as the Pharaonic Procedure. This may signify that it may have been practiced long before the rise of Islam, Christianity and possibly Judaism. It is not clear, however, whether this practice originated in Egypt or in some other African countries then spread to Egypt.
It is common knowledge that in some countries like Egypt, female circumcision has been practiced by both Muslims and Christians (how dare you not look into your own roots before you criticise another religion). In the meantime, this practice is NOT KNOWN in most Muslim countries including Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. This leads to the conclusion that female circumcision is connected with cultural practices rather than with Islam itself as a world religion.FGM is not part of Islam and in some instances may violate its teachings as embodied in its primary sources, Qur’an and Hadeeth. These sources are examined next.
2. IS THERE ANY AUTHENTIC TEXT IN THE PRIMARY SOURCES OF ISLAM WHICH REQUIRES FEMALE CIRCUMCISION FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS?
No mention of female circumcision is to be found in the Qur’an either directly or indirectly. There is no known Hadeeth which requires female circumcision. Some argued, however, that one Hadeeth, while not requiring female circumcision, appears to accept it: “Circumcision is a commedable act for men (Sunnah) and is an honorable thing for women (Makromah).” (which sheikh yermami has used)
There are two observations on this Hadeeth:
a) A distinction is made between male circumcision which is described in a stronger religious term (Sunnah) or commendable while another weaker description is given to female circumcision (Makromah) which implies no religious obligation.
b) This Hadeeth is of WEAK AUTHENTICITY (dha’eef) according to Hadeeth scholars and should NOT be used!
NOW are you really going to do your research when your trying to CITE a hadith?
Virtue is in the heart not the clitoris!
Do I need to go on or you understand ?
Kawthar, you are wasting everyones time.
FGM is spreading around the world because of Islam.
Not because its ‘cultural’ or ‘pharaonic’, but because the false profit of Islam did not explicitly forbid it. Stoning is also not in the koran, but who else is practicisng it besides the soldiers of allah? The hadith and other rulings on these matters can be found in the ‘Reliance of the Traveler’, the book from Al Azahr, the highest institution of Islamic studies.
Read the post correctly, Kawthar. Do some close reading (if you’re able) Kawthar. You might learn something about your ugly belief system. But obviously, you are more interested defending your obsession against your perceived enemies. You like it when you tie yourself up in knots?
Be my guest or be our clown, its your choice.
All you have presented us with so far is the typical personal attacks, name calling and unsubstantiated claims. Come back when you have something you can prove!
* Has it been abrogated by any muslim scholar of standing? Ever?
You fool go look at Shia Islam
Indonesia Facts:
96 percent of families surveyed reported that their daughters had undergone some form of circumcision by the time they reached 14.
http://www.al-rassooli.com/blog/
A “self-loathing leech”? How long did you rack your “brain” to come up with that one?
This is the most outrageous and ugliest thing I have ever heard of. There is no sound reasoning behind this horrific assualt on the female race I have ever seen. What on earth could they have been thinking of to have come up with this? Were they having a bad day? I know, the man was very upset with his wife, so he made up this story and the simple-minded people, not thinking for themselves decided to follow along. People wake up!! Just because something is being done over and over again does not make it right. There is no sound medical proof that female circumscion has any health benefits what soever, but there is plenty of proof that it is not a good thing. Continued infections can lead to death. I somehow do not believe that someone would intentionaly cause another persons death, unless you have some other underlying reasons. There have and will always be gulible people in the world ready to believe anything . Study to show thyself approved, this means follow no one but God.
Not ‘circumcision’- its genital mutilation.
I have been reading both Najeeb and sheikyermami post. I was raised christian but have been very interested in other religious views. I am not very educated on Islamic views, I will admit that out front. But Sheikyermami, you claim Muslim cannot co-exsist with other religions. I have found them to be the most accepting. Whatever religion you claim, Sheikyermami, you are making that group the intolerable ones. Wheither Najeebs comments are true of false, that is for the reader/believer to decide, as are yours. I have only seen Najeeb try to justify what he believes. If quoran verses prove nothing, than neither do bible verses that do or do not mention muhammad. Religion is faith. Religious faith is defined as Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. Najeeb has faith. Wheither said faith right or wrong in the eyes of anyone else. The only way we will know whether any of these allegations are true facts, is to meet our creator. Keep your faith and don’t put down other beliefs. I do not believe a loving god governing any religion will punish you for putting your complete faith in something you truely believe is the truth.
Anyone genuinely interested in share their beliefs with me, or hearing what I believe, feel free to email me(southernracing@ymail.com)
As a Female I can say I’m very happy I am not circumcised. But I think this practice in a sanitary facility with some kind of anesthesia or pain killer is not a monsterous practice. We circumcise men don’t we? When they are babies (usually) the parents decide. This emphasizes girls, people act like cultures don’t do this to boys as well.
Circumcision is not mutilation. FGM is a crime against humanity.
* But Sheikyermami, you claim Muslim cannot co-exsist with other religions.
“Allah” put it this way:
[O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. Sura 5.51]
How could some one do this to there daughter.Its just another freedom taken away from from muslim women.Muslim men must be so insecure to have so many rules over there wives.Brainwashed religions there is no god ,fools.
To filcher
Male circumcision is wrong as well. Just because this article concentrates in fgm doesn’t make cutting boys ok. People should not justify one evil practice with another.
Rubbish.
Circumcision is not mutilation.
Freaking monsters
When ever we need a person to show us how stupid and backward islamists are, an islamist steps up and volunteers its services for free. Well done kawthar, you moron! You should follow your advice and be silent.
10 hadiths a day suggests very little thought at all – just your style kawthar?
Iraq: Kurdish mullah says female genital mutilation is obligatory in Shafi’i Islamic jurisprudence, blames “Jewish” conspiracy against it
Is this guy some kind of Islamophobe? We have often quoted the Shafi’i jurisprudence manual Umdat al-Salik (The Reliance of the Traveler), here on many matters, including female genital mutilation, noting problems with the most common English translation. Enterprising amateur apologists have turned up in the comments section to claim that it’s just one book that we’ve plucked out of the ether to defame Islam.
One problem there is that Umdat al-Salik was, in fact, certified as “reliable” by none other than al-Azhar University in Egypt. What’s their excuse for not only failing to kick it to the curb, but taking the step of certifying it? They ought to know a “misunderstanding” of Islam when they see it.
And then there’s this guy, corroborating the same teachings of the Shafi’i school, and invoking chapter and verse of the Qur’an (4:34) to defend a man’s “right” to beat his wife. Gee, he must have some funky translation. That’s what all the apologists tell us. And yet here is an Islamic cleric who seems to have his decoder ring on backwards.
“Female Genital Mutilation ‘Is an Obligation’ Says Mullah in Iraqi-Kurdistan,” by Thomas v. der Osten-Sacken for Stop FGM Kurdistan, August 15, via the Assyrian International News Agency:
A mullah in Iraqi-Kurdistan talked in a Friday sermon about the new bill against domestic violence that passed the parliament of Iraqi Kurdistan in June. This law also forbids the practice of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM). Various clerics and members of Islamic groups started a campaign against this law and demand from the president of the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG) Mr. Massud Barzani not to sign the bill.
The mullah is one of the outspoken opponents of this bill. In his sermon he defends FGM as a Islamic practice of the Shafi’i law school. Additionally he defends the right of men to beat their women and children.
Here is a translation of some excerpts from his sermon:
A woman has the right to protest if her husband looks at her in a grim way. Allah says if a woman disobeys her husband he has the right to beat her, but the lashes should be according to the Sharia. It has conditions. (With the bill against domestic violence) the Kurdish Parliament has rejected Quranic law. (…) The parliament has also decreed that children should never be beaten for any reason. Even if the father comes home and the girl has a mobile phone in her hand that is not an excuse for beating her.
Of course she is a girl and will be encouraged in this bad world of today, she will have her mobile in front of her father flirting with boys and exchanging love phrases.. The father must sit cross handed in front of her, he must either kill himself if he has the least bit of honour left — saying that if he doesn’t do that he will lose his afterlife (…)- or he must assault his daughter who already has the numbers of the police stored on her mobile, calls this organization or that and complains that her father abuses her. The man will be put in jail for 6 months, and if the girl is not satisfied she can let him stay for 3 years and rot in jail. They will fine him 5 million ID. Is this the struggle for Kurdistan we are doing here? Is this the religion we have left? The situation is very dangerous but no one will follow you to the battlefield. The people don’t have guts. If the people do have courage I will be the first to block Barzani’s path. (….)
Then they come to the issue of circumcision. They have no problems left except the issue of female circumcision in Kurdistan. The mothers and sisters of more than half of your party members were circumcised. This means that you insult your own grandmother. You insult your own mother. You accuse them of ignorance. You dishonour your dead grandfather and burn his coffin for allowing the circumcision of your mother. Circumcision is a tenant [sic] of Islamic law (sharia). (…) (This bill is) to satisfy the Jews who in the conference of the Jews in Beijing discussed that female circumcision should be banned. You obey their orders and disregard the Sharia of Allah (…).
Not just the Jews. The Jews at a conference in Beijing. The conspiracy gets around!
They say if a mullah, a religious man, a father, a mother, a doctor or anyone else even mentions circumcision could be a good thing for women or if a woman feels uncomfortable and says that her mood was disturbed by that statement, she can complain to one of these organizations and agencies and they will take the mullah (…) to jail. (…) They can jail you for saying that circumcision is a good thing. The Imam Shafi’i (most Iraqi-Kurds belong to the Shafi’i law school) said circumcision is good! Aren’t you following his denomination? Didn’t the KRG president say that he is a Shafi’i? Your denomination says FGM is good, and that is why I am saying it is good. If you are honest in your denomination then don’t accept this discussion to be held in the parliament. Imam Shafi’i is one of those who say that FGM is an obligation, that girls and women should be circumcised (…)
If I get asked about the religious ruling on FGM I must keep my silence and not dare to open my mouth. I must request to avoid this subject. As soon as I utter that FGM is good then they can arrest me. (…) If you don’t accept this Mr. President you are the one who receives the project. You might say that you don’t approve of the MPs. The people will love you for doing that. (…)
No longer should they ridicule our religion and believes [sic] and honours. We have made you president, you have the parliament and the oil and the money and no one is bothering you, why don’t you leave our religion and honour intact?…
The full transcript and video can be found at the Stop FGM Kurdistan web page.
Sick
These photos make me sick. Only perverts will still practice this type of crap. Everybody is blaming it on religion and cultural bullshit. Yes I believe that somewhere down their ancestry path a guy wanted to make sure his woman didn’t go astray so he did it to his wife. Big fucking deal. Now all the other morons are doing it to control their woman. If you really want your woman to stay with you then learn how to please her right. I also think male circumcision is unnecessary too. Let me cut off the skin on the tip of your nose and tell you its a fashion statement. In the hospital after I had my son a nurse asked me if I wanted to have my son circumcised. I said to her coldly, “As long as I can kill you first.” This is nonsense. Stop cutting children’s private parts.
Just leave it all natural the way god intended.
How can this be happening, why you do this to your ladies. Are you not just going to make them happy
If they want to do this practice, this revolting disgusting child abuse, then so be it, so long as they stay in their own country. I get fed up with these parasites coming over to countries like England and Australia and then demanding that their child abuse, torturing practices continue. The sad thing is, these people will never realise that a women does not have to have her genitals mutilated in order for her to not be promiscuous. They need to stay in their own countries and slowly they’ll just kill each other off, as long as they don’t bring it to Western countries then I’m happy. Sad for the children but what you need to realise is that the mothers who hold their children down while their child screams in pain, they were once children too and so, the cycle continues. Let them wipe each other out in their own country since they all seem to love torturing each other, abuse and all the other cruel intentions they have, but close the borders and keep these heterogenous parasites out of Western, civilised countries.
This is horrible. It would be one thing for adult women to choose to do it to themselves, but another to do it on a 9 mounth old who has no say. this is why I hate religion
these ugly, fools these Muslims are really insecure , they know they can only rape.They can not win over a lady with love and kindness. Muhammad the mad man was also impotent and was very insecure. His CHILD BRIDE AISHA was in love with a soldier. She had also many men visiting her as her relatives from ‘SUCKLING’.She said that Muhammad imagined that he had sex with all his wives in one night while actually he had no sex at all!!!
hi
This talk is completely false and a lie is attributed to Muslims. Islam can not be true to falsehood and distortion-free document.
Again, it’s a practice older than Islam, it’s carried out in non-Muslim societies too and when it is, it’s practiced only by a subset of Muslims. The only failure of Islam is in not outlawing it – but if failure to outlaw each and every evil should condemn a religion, which religion would remain?
The only way you can attribute this problem to 1.5 billion people is by ignorance of the diversity within and make-up of that group.
Solkhar is right. This is ignorant, right-wing anti-Islam at it’s worst. Don’t let yourself be distracted – fight FGM, not Islam.
As this moderator has said this site is about teaching the evils of Islam. That’s why he is (weakly) trying to link it to FGM. It’s not a serious discussion about the problem, what to do, what is being done etc.
Don’t buy into his using this emotive issue as propaganda.
Argumentum non sequitur.
This post is called “Female genital mutilation is part of the Sunna of the Prophet†and documents that FGM is rooted in Islamic teachings, confirmed by many Islamic clerics and their victims who believe in this abominable practice.
If you want us to believe that it was pre-Islamic then why didn’t Muhammad, profit of Islam, abolish it?
He abolished so many other things from the jahiliyya, didn’t he?
But he didn’t abolish terror, assassination and warfare against unbelievers either, in fact he perpetuated it. Just like polygamy, misogyny, rape and pedophilia. All these crimes were not exactly invented by Muhammad, but he made it into a ‘religion’.
Your highly emotive outburst “this is ignorant, right-wing anti-Islam at it’s worst. Don’t let yourself be distracted – fight FGM, not Islam” is childish and laughable.
You are not fighting FGM, you defend the practice because you are a submissive slave of allah. You are fighting people like us who are exposing the evil of Islam, and you don’t even see the nonsensical stupidity in your bankrupt statements.
Hello,
I am Muslim and i see it like this. FGM is localised. Don’t make it a general issue about Islam. Islam is found everywhere and FGM is not practised everywhere, hmm? Also, i always wondered about two things about Jesus as i am not very well informed. First, who put him on the cross? the roman catholics or the jews? Also, why God hasnt saved him by using his super powers ? That is what gives me doubt about Christianity.
islam never permit to do this. who told you islam gives permit? and it is suna of prophet.it is crul for the all women in the world. I think you are a uneducated person who don’t know about islam.
Yes, because god would create us with foreskins and clits just so that we can cut it off.. i just remembered why i left islam…
the US and Uk both practiced this on lesbians…. just saying know all the facts
Oh yeah?
Any evidence?
OH MY GOD! I CANNOT IMAGINE ,FOR MY OPINION THAT IS SO BRUTAL IN MY PART. BUT I RESPECT IT BECAUSE IT IS HER TRADITION. THANKS GOD I ‘M CHRISTIAN AND MY FAMILY.
You “respect it?”
Are you out of your f*kcing mind?
What’s there to respect about this monstrous practice?
This archaic and barbaric practice is cruel and must be stopped as the World Health Organization has ordered. That is simply put but as a registered nurse, I cannot see how mothers of girls continue to allow this suffering to happen to their precious children.
The World Health Organization cannot order anything. It is part of the OIC infiltrated and dominated UN which promotes the Islamic agenda.
He respects it. Faker.
Yes!!!! I respect it because that is her tradition.But I did not say I like it. That kind brutal act I don’t like that monstrous practice?
Very well.
So you respect cannibalism as well?
You respect pedophilia and child marriage?
You respect honor killing, murder of unbelievers and apostates, human sacrifice?
Where does your tolerance end?
I don’t respect cannibalism as well?
I don’t respect pedophilia
I don’t respect honor killing, murder of unbelievers and apostates, human sacrifice?
That why we don’t have world peace because we don’t understand and respect its other the culture ,believe ,tradition and religious believe,
But we can fight about that for the right of woman in the whole world especially in Arab nation but HOW, WHEN ,WHERE.
You are disagree that practice. Do you have any move to stop that practice.
I think your move about the monstrous practice? is so called lips service only.
This has nothing to do with islam this practice is done because stupid ppl believe this will keep a girl a virgin. a white person had to write this they swear they know everything about every race/religion
How come when a boy does it it’s ok it’s hygenic, when a girl has it done with those interests in mind its “mutilation” Mohammad specified not to be excessive in this and btw this predates islam, which would amount to a type 1 circumcision there are no associated ill effects of this and is shown to prevent disease and infection same as a boys. If a western woman sows up her vagina and gets an inflatable penis implant, saws off her breasts and takes male hormones it’s “freedom” if a muslim woman does as men does and trims a little excess skin for hygiene it’s mutilation? You people are ridiculous the islamic witch hunt in full effect btw your porn stars do this to look better removing their big turkey necks from years of illicit sex FACT oh freedom my bad…..
Actaully who wrote that article is clearly someone wants to hit the Islam, first FEMALE Circumcision is NOT from Islam, there is no ONE speech of Prophet Muhammad that says it is Exist, also if it was true Prophet will start doing this on his daughters and wives, and all what u said up is untrue , and i can have a bet with to bring me ONE Islamic prove about u said on Aisha, then Alazhar Sheik or any Sheik is not a face of Islam its their own opinions – surely they got paid – , and let me before ending say the Islamic LAW about Female Circumcision http://www.minaret.org/fgm-pamphlet.htm
or
http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/fgm.html
Moreover Female Circumcision was known before Islam, then all people who do it in the Islamic country r in few places mostly in Egypt and they all do it because they think its a Cultural need or because they thought its from Islam, most of them are poor and uneducated. Also Female Circumcision is spread ed in many un Islamic countries in Africa or in Asia.
So Please Stop your Lies on here, and I’m Sure that you all are not stronger than God who is the creator on Islam. and sallah Ala Saidna Muhammad wa Alla Aleh w sahbeh Ajma’een
Ahmad Ayyoub
No Lies here mate. You don’t know much about FGM if you think it is only in Egypt. It spreads everywhere islam spreads so it is obviously connected to islam. Muslim men treat women like slaves and chattels..on this basis alone , muslim men have no connection to ANY God. They are violent abusers through and through..maybe you yourself are not violent but you are complicit in your denial of this horrendous violence against women and girls….wake up and smell the coffee.
Ahmed if you want us to believe female circumcision is un Islamic then why wasn’t it abolished along with so many other things from the jahiliyya? When you can bring a rational argument to the discussion you must bring a link with more than just the laws in the sharia to back it up. Yerpapa… it is not about whether it’s hygenic or not the issue is it being performed on patients too young to make a choice, and you know that.
Yerpapa. Who said it was about hygiene this is about a patient’s rights to choose without being uninformed of health risks.
What happened to my post?
ahmad ayyoub,
islam is weak – its god is a demon, and you are a moron. You are the one who is lying, but then you are unable to tell the truth, as you have being lying to yourself from an early age about your “religion”. You are quite stupid and you have nothing to say. Why are you wasting our time?! I agree totally with theresaj – you are complicit with the death of every woman and innocent who has murdered by islamic lunatics. Stop your lies muslim!!! And we are stronger than your demon called allah.
sheikyermami, I don’t believe your here to understand, learn or help but to preech what you think Islam is. Your narrow minded so if the entire Muslim population told u that u are incorrect, you would still assume you know better. Your a hater who does nothing productive or helpful but hate and express hatred.
Are you really trying to help prevent fgm or doing nothing but attacking Islam and it’s followers and spreading untruthful information.
This is one of the most insane we humans do with the body that God has created and given to us.
As muslim. There aint no way im believing any of this shit is ok. Doctor or not. If u think its ok. Take a knife and cut ur own balls of as you watch. Tell me if u can do that and then get back to me. After all… the scrotum is excess skin that is terrible to deal with as it rubs against our pants… (sarcasm) stop fgm. Ur embarassing the Allah i believe in.
thanks for this excerpt may allah reward you with paradise.
This is one of the most cruel and evil and sad things I’ve seen in my life amd I don’t even care if it’s religious, it’s ridiculous and makes ppl that support it look so uneducated and cruel… Way to torture little girls Freaks
It is backward and barbaric……
Forget about brainwashing them with religion…….. it is about time they were educated.
Or why not have a religion based on cutting the man’s penis down to an inch in size, sure that will keep men more in check and be more hygenic.
Education is needed…………………. not religion
How can those of you bringing into this discussion the “evils of the west” and the “brutality of Christianity” live with yourselves? Those are totally separate issues. Discuss them elsewhere.
The only thing important here is that there exist in today’s world entire societies of men and women who as a matter of common practice cut off a woman’s sex organ and sew her up, to keep her from having any sexual pleasure. This is not “circumcision”, where a flap of skin is removed. It’s mutilating a person by unnecessarily and painfully removing a sensitive organ. It’s slavery, it’s brutality, and it’s wrong. The issue isn’t that complicated, people.
You have misspelled its not prophet mohomad its puppet mohomad 😉
NOT TRUE. This is a fake propaganda against Islam, there is no obligation about all this. Show me where it is written in the Quran about the female genital mutilation’s obligation…yes boys have to pass through it, and just go and ask to a doctor he himm self will prouve you that the males are curcimcised for good medical reasons.
Can you read?
Where in this article does it say its in the Koran?
No one has said that it was in the Koran.
the Article is about the Sunna.
are you blind….?
go and findout from a Sunni Imam if that is permissible in Islam or not.
I dont know if you are a sunni or not.
I am not here to educate you about your own religion but Sunnies which make the majority of Muslims in the world do not only beleave in the Koran but in the Sunna of the Prophet (Piss be upon him)….lol
FGM be done to women over 60years of age, but not to young girls or sexually active women.
Ofcourse, this is one of the biggest mistakes we humans are doing. I don’t believe that this is an obligatory act according to Islam and I would never practice it on my daughters too. I rather see cuttingvthe sex organ as Haram But I believe that touching the prepuce, which is the thin covering layer of the clitoris is not that bad.
This is real in humanity
yo solo dire QUE ME IMPORTA UN CULO SI ESTO ES DE LOS MUSULMANES, ISALAMICOS, MAHOMA, CRISTIANOS…SI ES LA MISMA MIERDA O NO pero es un acto terrible lo que hacen y lo peor la ONU NO HACE NADA, cuantas chicas estan sufriendo,ah cuantas les estan haciendo esto en estos momentos, y nosotros COMO SI NADA!!!
que tal fueramos nosotros los que estuvieramos en esa posicion?anhelariamos que alguien frenara esto
ESO ES MALTRATO A LA MUJER, MALDITA SEA DEBERIAMOS MORIR TODOS DE UNA VEZ, QUE ASCO LA RAZA HUMANA, HIJOS DE PUTA LOS QUE HACEN ESO.
perdon pero me tenia que expresar
SILENCIO NUNCA MAS!!!
I just say ass MATTERS TO ME IF THIS IS ONE OF THE MUSLIMS, ISALAMICOS, Mohammed, CHRISTIAN … IF THE SAME SHIT OR NOT but it is a terrible thing what they do and the worst thing the UN does nothing, how many girls are suffering, ah how many they are doing this right now, and we LIKE NOTHING!
such we were we that we were in that position? anhelariamos someone put a stop to this
THAT IS ABUSE WOMEN SHOULD BE DAMNED DIE ALL AT ONCE, THE HUMAN RACE TO ASCO, motherfuckers who do that.
sorry but I had to express
SILENT NO MORE!
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WHAT THE HELL YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING ??????
IF U CANT FU*KING UNDERSTAND ISLAM THE RIGHT WAY THEN STOP MAKING IT YOUR OWN WAY !!!
PROPHET MUHAMMAD NEVER SAID THAT WE HAVE TO DO THIS…. STUPID TRADITIONS BLAMING A WISE RELIGION FOR THEIR FAULTS !!!!
WHAT IF THEY HAD SEXUAL INTERESTS ?? SO WHAT ? THIS IS HOW LIFE SHOULD BE !! QUR’AN AND ISLAM SAID THEY SHOULD CONTROL THEIR INTERESTS TILL THEY GET MARRIED THEN GOD WILL REWARD THEM AND TAKE THEM TO HEAVEN BECAUSE THEY CONTROLLED IT AND STAYED CLEAN DURING ALL THEIR VIRGIN LIVES BEFORE MARRIAGE !!!!
THEN HOW ON EARTH WILL HE SAY THAT THEY HAVE TO DO THE Female genital mutilation WHEN HE IS SAYING THAT WE MUST HAVE CONTROL OVER OUR SEXUAL INTERESTS THAT REQUIRES THE SEXUAL ORGAN TO BE IN ITS PLACE ???
this is totally unfair and against the islam.this is also not sunnah as well.this is mankind stupid things.if i can and i have power,i like to kill out,nockout that all bastards.they all are terrorist and terrorist have no religion.our muftis and ulmaas have to do strong action against them.
japheth what are your credentials to speak for the arabs? I am not but that doesn’t matter. You are not a medical professional. You muslime seek help immediately.
The Holy Qur’an does not impose an obligation on parents to circumcise their children, however, one can find the references in the man written story book of Hadit